Who Will Win the Upcoming "Class War" in America? || kuro5hin.org


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Who Will Win the Upcoming "Class War" in America?

By N0574 in Meta
Wed Sep 21, 2011 at 01:11:40 PM EST
Tags: MLP, taxes, class warfare, plutocracy (all tags)

When I heard news of Obama's "tax the rich" plan my first thought was "is it even legal to tax the rich in the USA today?" During the Bush Administration the wealthiest 5% of Americans got a $580 billion tax cut, live far more luxurious lives than the normal citizens, and have gotten a free ride for so long it's almost inconceivable...tax them? Hard even for Democrats to imagine it appears, since the last thing Obama said was look ""This is not class warfare. It's math." This is playing into the American right's anti-government rhetoric, and I believe the President made a serious blunder by putting it that way.

Instead, Obama should try to make it very clear what exactly his plans really are and why we need the rich to pay for these programs. Even if he does, chances are the current band of extremely anti-state conservatives in congress will do everything in its power to block the increases. OTOH, if he succeeds Obama might well get re-elected: killing a $1.3 trillion deficit largely inherited from the Bush administration's reckless spending is an epic "war" indeed.

OBSERVATION: Steve Kornacki makes a good historical point about taxes in his Salon article:
Bill Clinton, who rode to the presidency in 1992 by positioning himself as a champion of the middle class and deriding the 1980s as a decade when "the rich got richer" while everyone else fell behind. Clinton promised to raise taxes on the wealthiest two percent of Americans, and voters responded -- even as Republicans screamed, "Class warfare!" And as president, Clinton followed through, creating a new marginal rate that affected the top 1.8 percent of income-earners -- and that passed Congress without a single Republican vote, but with dire Republican warnings that it would cost millions of jobs and plunge the country into another recession. Instead, it proved to be one of the main reasons that by the end of Clinton's term the country was running a surplus and was on course to pay off the entire national debt.
Taxes really are an effective way to generate funds and promote national prosperity. Even though his chances of succeeding are slim, hopefully Obama will prevail in his struggle to revive the economy and drag it out of a recession caused by extravagant Republican spending and certain corrupt traditions in American capitalism.
In the upcoming "class war," I for one hope the 95% of us who are losing in this economy (not to mention the 8% of us who are unemployed) prevail against the top 5% who have and always will succeed in any case.

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Poll

Do you support tax increases on the top 5% of wealthiest Americans?

Yes, I do. 75%

No, I do not. 20%

I'm not an USian, so don't give a damn. 16%

Votes: 24
Results | Other Polls

Who Will Win the Upcoming "Class War" in America? | 93 comments (90 topical, 3 editorial, 0 hidden)

I think one of the big reasons Obama's tax (none / 1) (#1)
by king of fools on Tue Sep 20, 2011 at 11:33:24 AM EST

increases won't fly in a Republican Congress is because these tax increases won't just be the closing of loopholes on millionaires and billionaires. Obama has proposed tax increases on people making 200,000 or 250,000 a year and up. This simply won't pass a Republican controlled House.

I am generally opposed to tax increases for the simple reason that I believe private individuals will spend or invest their money more efficiently than the government will. The last stimulus created 'green jobs' that cost $280,000 per job with much of it wasted or not even spent. Simply allowing private individuals to spend their money is more efficient. The money gets put back in the economy without the layer of government involvement and waste.

Granted, Republicans call the wealthy 'job creators' and don't want to tax them with the idea they will create jobs. The rich now have had low tax rates (relatively) for the last 8 years and the jobs just aren't being created. But the reason I think many businesses are not hiring is due to regulatory uncertainty and the health care bill under Obama. Employers can't predict how much a new employee will cost them under the current regime and so they are reticent to take on new employees. How much will the health care bill cost them per employee when it goes into effect? No one can really account for the costs of that massive bill.

Another example of regulatory interference: Boeing recently tried to build a plant in South Carolina that would have employed thousands but the National Labor Relations Board is interfering with their plans because it was to be a non-union operation. This happened because of Obama's ties to unions and so the folks in SC are out of these jobs as a result.

----------------

fade out again

I'm gonna reply to this comment by N0574, 09/20/2011 12:53:32 PM EST (none / 0)

actual reply by N0574, 09/21/2011 04:33:04 AM EST (none / 1)

here's a crazier idea by LilDebbie, 09/21/2011 01:37:29 PM EST (3.00 / 2)

I like the idea of working 80 hours a week by greengrass, 09/21/2011 01:53:12 PM EST (none / 1)

because the states are absolutely incapable by LilDebbie, 09/21/2011 02:21:48 PM EST (none / 0)

Outsourcing would just kill the Free states. by Pentashagon, 09/24/2011 02:21:24 PM EST (none / 0)

kinda like how companies are jumping the border by LilDebbie, 09/25/2011 06:05:04 PM EST (none / 0)

your statements contradict themselves by Delirium, 09/25/2011 06:36:57 PM EST (none / 0)

where exactly do you think capital comes from? $ by LilDebbie, 09/25/2011 07:05:59 PM EST (none / 0)

inheritance? by Delirium, 09/25/2011 08:07:25 PM EST (none / 1)

Pretty much. by Pentashagon, 09/26/2011 01:43:43 AM EST (none / 0)

ugh by LilDebbie, 09/26/2011 07:15:08 AM EST (none / 0)

So the economy needs more investment? by Blarney, 09/27/2011 07:54:54 AM EST (none / 0)

I'm not sure what 80 hour work weeks have to do by Morally Inflexible, 09/21/2011 02:31:20 PM EST (none / 0)

Burnout doesn't really affect blue collar labor. by Pentashagon, 09/24/2011 02:28:00 PM EST (none / 0)

in what universe by Morally Inflexible, 09/24/2011 05:08:26 PM EST (none / 1)

Apparently blue collar workers are closer to 12% by Pentashagon, 09/26/2011 01:22:52 AM EST (none / 0)

I think they are including what I'd call by Morally Inflexible, 09/26/2011 04:05:10 PM EST (none / 0)

lies and more lies by Blarney, 09/20/2011 01:03:28 PM EST (3.00 / 3)

by several you mean two by LilDebbie, 09/20/2011 02:24:01 PM EST (none / 1)

Funny by Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi, 09/20/2011 03:06:14 PM EST (1.50 / 2)

agreed by LilDebbie, 09/20/2011 03:35:26 PM EST (none / 1)

Idiot. by Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi, 09/20/2011 04:12:03 PM EST (none / 1)

what takes up the majority of the budget? by LilDebbie, 09/20/2011 04:14:26 PM EST (none / 1)

The military? by Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi, 09/20/2011 05:06:58 PM EST (1.50 / 2)

how about instead of guessing by LilDebbie, 09/20/2011 06:13:06 PM EST (none / 0)

Oh right by Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi, 09/21/2011 04:24:41 AM EST (none / 0)

Not to mention by Nimey, 09/21/2011 09:32:16 AM EST (none / 0)

Of course, SS completely funds itself. by Pentashagon, 09/24/2011 02:50:13 PM EST (2.25 / 4)

so if SS and medicare are self funded by LilDebbie, 09/30/2011 08:06:12 PM EST (none / 1)

join a teacher's union. by Morally Inflexible, 10/03/2011 05:24:40 AM EST (none / 0)

Even so, I find it kinda amusing by Morally Inflexible, 10/03/2011 05:27:02 AM EST (none / 0)

which is exactly why they'd lie by Blarney, 09/20/2011 03:21:22 PM EST (none / 1)

what lie? by LilDebbie, 09/20/2011 03:46:08 PM EST (none / 0)

This is the concept of classical equilibrium? by Blarney, 09/20/2011 04:17:11 PM EST (none / 0)

no, it's desertification by LilDebbie, 09/20/2011 04:41:24 PM EST (none / 0)

once again you leave out human beings by Blarney, 09/20/2011 11:02:49 PM EST (none / 0)

why am i not talking about both? by LilDebbie, 09/20/2011 11:20:31 PM EST (none / 0)

so what is your store of value? by Blarney, 09/21/2011 01:19:57 AM EST (none / 1)

the single greatest event in history by LilDebbie, 09/21/2011 03:01:13 AM EST (none / 0)

BTW since when do you have a family? $ by Blarney, 09/20/2011 04:17:53 PM EST (none / 0)

what, you thought i sprang from a rock? $ by LilDebbie, 09/20/2011 04:42:21 PM EST (none / 0)

or from the head of Zeus? $ by Blarney, 09/20/2011 10:52:39 PM EST (none / 0)
I thought you sprang from a broken rubber by greengrass, 09/20/2011 10:54:35 PM EST (none / 1)

ror by Nimey, 09/21/2011 09:34:56 AM EST (none / 0)

eh, it's a little bit more complicated than that. by Morally Inflexible, 09/21/2011 03:06:08 PM EST (none / 1)

that's great if you're a small business owner by LilDebbie, 09/22/2011 12:54:42 PM EST (none / 0)

go see my comments on solyndra by Morally Inflexible, 09/22/2011 06:21:27 PM EST (none / 1)

How did you get your pie, anyway? by Pentashagon, 09/24/2011 03:15:21 PM EST (none / 1)

i do care about the next generation by LilDebbie, 09/30/2011 08:02:42 PM EST (none / 1)

Not entirely by Nimey, 09/21/2011 09:33:58 AM EST (none / 1)

yeah they create jobs... by Zombie Schrodingers Cat, 10/01/2011 11:02:05 AM EST (none / 0)

why is china cheaper? by QuantumG, 09/25/2011 02:37:27 AM EST (none / 0)

Obama (1.50 / 4) (#3)
by Lexx Core on Tue Sep 20, 2011 at 12:25:08 PM EST

Want to be a two term president. He has to raise taxes on somebody to fix the economy and he knows it. Class warfare is when the poor rise up against the rich and has nothing to do with taxes.

what his plans really are? (2.00 / 3) (#7)
by LilDebbie on Tue Sep 20, 2011 at 02:07:30 PM EST

you realize obama hasn't even signed a budget in over two (2) years? the last thing resembling a budget was the continuing appropriations act which simply "continued" the 2010 budget.

the only thing he has resembling a "plan" is the fucking jobs act, which racks up another half trillion in debt so we can extend the payroll tax cut, which will only be effective if it's permanent, and create temporary government makework ~~digging ditches~~ fixing schools. does that dipshit realize they are closing schools because of declining enrollment or is his entire economic model based on shoveling money to the nicest politically sounding groups?

maybe if we give companies like solyndra another half billion we'll turn this ship around HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

I almost agree with you by N0574, 09/21/2011 08:39:43 AM EST (none / 0)

how exactly will we benefit by LilDebbie, 09/21/2011 07:44:12 PM EST (none / 0)

How exactly will we beneift by Nimey, 09/21/2011 07:59:35 PM EST (none / 0)

BECAUSE DEMAND CREATES SUPPLY by LilDebbie, 09/21/2011 09:23:05 PM EST (none / 0)

That's a cute satire of yourself by Nimey, 09/21/2011 09:57:53 PM EST (none / 0)

The sense you'll actually get with that: by Enlarged to Show Texture, 09/21/2011 09:08:36 PM EST (none / 0)
I'm actually with Debbie on this one by Morally Inflexible, 09/26/2011 04:21:11 PM EST (none / 0)

job security means economic stability by N0574, 10/04/2011 01:41:33 PM EST (none / 0)

You know why they didn't have a budget? by Nimey, 09/21/2011 09:36:37 AM EST (none / 0)

actually by LilDebbie, 09/21/2011 07:43:23 PM EST (none / 0)

Senate: Republican filibusters by Nimey, 09/21/2011 07:56:15 PM EST (none / 0)

wingnuttery like reduced spending? by LilDebbie, 09/21/2011 09:24:25 PM EST (none / 0)

Wingnuttery like making the poor suffer even more by Nimey, 09/21/2011 09:57:03 PM EST (none / 0)

get things done? by LilDebbie, 09/21/2011 10:31:34 PM EST (none / 1)

For those of us who are sane adults by Nimey, 09/21/2011 10:37:51 PM EST (none / 1)

no, you're right by LilDebbie, 09/22/2011 12:17:47 AM EST (none / 0)

You're too stupid and emotional to read by Nimey, 09/22/2011 07:56:41 AM EST (none / 1)

so as long as the feds maintain the interstate by LilDebbie, 09/22/2011 11:25:18 AM EST (none / 0)

DRAMA QUEEN by Nimey, 09/22/2011 12:16:41 PM EST (none / 0)

recommendations? by LilDebbie, 09/22/2011 12:49:56 PM EST (none / 0)

My comments, for instance. $ by Nimey, 09/22/2011 01:12:20 PM EST (none / 0)

GAY SEX HOOKUP DETECTED by Enlarged to Show Texture, 09/24/2011 11:11:37 PM EST (none / 0)

Next on the EIB Network and WHNE Talk Radio (2.57 / 7) (#21)
by tdillo on Tue Sep 20, 2011 at 08:18:59 PM EST

it's the LilDebbie show!

"...the rich create jobs in order to stay rich and get richer, you stupid fucktard..."

He's keeping America RED White & BLUE

"...we are literally burning through earth's savings account at an ever increasing rate and when that well runs dry we will start burning each other."

Join LilDebbie and his guests, Michelle Bachmann, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove as they rip the Liberal Left a new one!

"What, you thought I sprang from a rock?"

On the LilDebbie show!

The phone lines are open!

And now ladies and gentlemen . . .

IT's

LIL DEBBBBBBBIIIEEE!

_{I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to go fuck yourself.

The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.}

Class warfare (2.40 / 5) (#35)
by Nimey on Wed Sep 21, 2011 at 09:39:35 AM EST

It's pretty cute that the Republicans appropriated that as their slogan considering that this is exactly what they're doing to the middle and working classes with their "tax the rich less so they can give jobs to Chinese and Indians who will work for peanuts and make the rich richer" policies.

It's another example of the Big Lie at work.
--
Never mind, it was just the dog cumming -- jandev
You Sir, are an Ignorant Motherfucker. -- Crawford
I am arguably too manic to do that. -- Crawford
I already fuck my mother -- trane
Nimey is right -- Blastard
i am in complete agreement with Nimey -- i am a pretty big deal

and let's not forget by Nimey, 09/21/2011 10:00:52 AM EST (3.00 / 4)

If you don't like it, kill yourself $ by Enlarged to Show Texture, 09/21/2011 11:40:20 AM EST (none / 0)

wait, what? Obama never even (3.00 / 4) (#41)
by Morally Inflexible on Wed Sep 21, 2011 at 02:12:19 PM EST

suggested taxing the rich. He's talking about raising the high end of payroll taxes, which is to say, raising taxes on the upper middle classes. Doctors, Lawyers, people with small, privately held businesses that have done well, etc...

The rich pay capital gains tax, and nobody has talked about raising that at all. Obama has even talked about cutting it as a 'stimulus' (which is a shit on the chest for all of us trying to actually run a business selling goods or services in exchange for money, rather than building a "startup" to sell to investors.)

Really? by Nimey, 09/21/2011 02:51:09 PM EST (none / 0)

From anyone serious? Link? by Morally Inflexible, 09/21/2011 02:55:32 PM EST (none / 0)

google://obama buffett rule by Nimey, 09/21/2011 03:02:58 PM EST (none / 0)

I know buffett has been talking about that by Morally Inflexible, 09/21/2011 03:08:19 PM EST (none / 0)

sort of indirectly by Delirium, 09/22/2011 01:22:20 AM EST (none / 1)

As long as... (none / 0) (#49)
by Pnarp on Wed Sep 21, 2011 at 05:44:29 PM EST

...he taxes everyone but me, I'm happy. I hope he really taxes the hell out of that old curmudgeon of a neighbor of mine, too. That guy really deserves it!

∼ Phillip Norbert Årp
_{Powered by the love of the voluptuous insect goddess, Strahazazhia Kalamazoo-Kintaki-Meeps, She of the six-legged delights.}

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This is clearly a mistake (3.00 / 5) (#70)
by thiswillbegreat on Thu Sep 22, 2011 at 09:51:54 PM EST

This post appears to be somewhat relevant to the world at large. Its appearance on the front page is clearly a gigantic mistake.
Semper ubi sub ubi.
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Who Will Win the Upcoming "Class War" in America? | 93 comments (90 topical, 3 editorial, 0 hidden)

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