now, i'm no codemonkey, but if i were, i would be exceedingly pissed off that you were trying to train insanely cheap third world labor to do my job.
"THROW YOUR HANDS UP AND LET THE CATS DECIDE" - hallo
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Let them eat cake!$ (2.50 / 4) (#11)
by V on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 08:43:31 PM EST
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---
What my fans are saying:
"That, and the fact that V is a total, utter scumbag."
VZAMaZ.
"well look up little troll" cts.
"I think you're a worthless little cuntmonkey but you made me lol, so I sigged you." re
"goodness gracious you're an idiot" mariahkillschickens
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but we will not be listening to recursion the whole trip, buddy
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I'm of the Baldrsonian school of thought when it comes to Esther Dyson. The woman has been warped by the parasitic non-profit culture she is immersed in. Being involved in the Russian privatization disaster is another indication of trouble to me. "Chickening out" was a great idea.
Having said that, Baldrson actually did hire (remotely) some Russian programmers (I guess out-MCing MC here). But there was surprisingly little demand in the States for cheap competent programmers. And the usual modes for hiring people (eg, through networking or headhunters) is geared towards employment of US residents.
I know you're all going to think I'm manic, but I'm not.
You present a poor case. I have done similar meandering (and in my case with a great deal of fantasizing), but I never had the responsibilities you do.
Stating the obvious since 1969.
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- Are you the guy by TDS, 03/04/2008 01:04:19 PM EST (none / 0)
- yes by khallow, 03/04/2008 04:30:40 PM EST (none / 1)
If we look at this from an angle of what's the most efficient use of your time in improving the world order, it would seem more efficient for you to teach local inner-city kids to program.
If we look at this from what is the most efficient use of your time in self-development and bread-winning, you need to live cheap and get a lucrative C++ job and learn C# and move to .NET... keeping the Python fresh, cause you never know, Python coding can pay well too.
But, we want to keep it real right? If we are looking for a hype angle... something to blog about... something to get a Wikipedia entry and pagerank.... this could work.
What comes to mind is the Missionary Concept. Churches send poor missionaries all over the world planting seed churches. Mike, you could be the John Wesley of Python. What you need is a mother-church for funding and direction.
The way you are heading might get you the needed connections. If not, you may want to consider Google and Microsoft as sources. They are kinda church-like.
If you want to make this more attractive, you need a vision that fills in the gap. OK, right now we have poverty. We inject laptops and Mike, and after some incubation we get X. X, I'm guessing is some wealth-building innovation. But that is kinda pie-in-sky. We need something immediate and practical. Like Heifer Foundation. You inject a cow, then pretty quick you can see milk, baby cows, cheese, meat...
Right now I'm thinking, inject Mike, laptops and pretty soon teach applied engineering and build roads, water and sewer works. I think the more this rings of civil engineering, and the less this rings of social/computer engineering, the more it looks like progress and the less it implies a breeding ground for hackers and spammers.
Best wishes Michael.
-- Search the
Scriptures Start with some cheap grace...Got Life?
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if the educational infrastructure is there, such as philippines, india, china, brazil, you don't need to do any of this, kids will naturally gravitate to programming. you could open some academy in the middle of nowhere, and attract smart kids from the surrounding area, and make a bit of a splash with a few geniuses, but unless the country itself makes the educational investment, all you will have is a tiny gem which doesn't really change the society, just gets a green card to a few lucky smart kids. not that that isn't worth it, but the society itself needs to make the investment, not a few do gooded westerners
The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.
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you want a foundation to pay you, someone who has no formal teaching experience or training(training programmers doesn't count) and doesn't speak the native language, an engineers wage to drive your piece of shit car all the way to columbia so you can play piano and teach kids a skill which there may or may not be a market for.
-----------------------------------------
I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
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i heard there was a 3rd world country to the north (1.66 / 3) (#25)
by raduga on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 04:20:01 PM EST
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that could benefit tremendously from your talents.
You should ask Bonita what she thinks, and if she knows any underprivileged Hyperboreans that could use your help.
But yeah, you should ask Bonita anyway-
and preferably, before you've already made up your mind that you're going to do this no matter what.
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I taught programming for a couple of years (2.66 / 3) (#45)
by mybostinks on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:14:17 PM EST
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and have always wanted to go to a poor country and teach it when I retire. It would be an adventure.
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I'll tell you that I dislike this crap completely. (2.75 / 4) (#48)
by V on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:18:07 PM EST
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Is this anything more than ego-boosting? Does this have even a slight possibility of generating something other than a blog?
This is slightly better than the "X without borders" motherfuckers. Oh! How compassionate! They build nice things for the savages! It's their white man's burden!
Fuck you and your self-serving philanthropy.
V. ---
What my fans are saying:
"That, and the fact that V is a total, utter scumbag."
VZAMaZ.
"well look up little troll" cts.
"I think you're a worthless little cuntmonkey but you made me lol, so I sigged you." re
"goodness gracious you're an idiot" mariahkillschickens
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you know that?
you profess to be a dirty gnu hippy and rally against intellectual property hoarding, yet throw that away at the prospect of making the third world into to the next microsoft, apple, autodesk, or adobe.. so you can be remembered for eternity for making the third world a thing of the past.
It's all just some ego trip.. you have this demented quest to have a lasting legacy. Well why don't you knock up bonita and create a familial legacy instead?
grandeur can't be forced, and when you try to force it, you're delusional. You want to help the third world help you? do you know how retarded that shit even sounds?
Going and teaching kids to write code is all fine and well, i'm sure the peace corps would snatch you up for that.... and yeah guess what you're not the first person to have this bright idea.. nor would you be the first technical programmer over there, or likely the most notable or effective.
Helping the third world is largely a thankless and anonymous job.. which is great if that's what you're into.. but you sir are barking up the wrong tree.
---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
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The Inn of Sixth Happiness (3.00 / 3) (#62)
by sye on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 09:32:10 PM EST
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MC, have you watched that film "The Inn of Sixth happiness" ? ... It was based on a true story. She has the same drive as you do and the same aim, I suspect... and lack of money did not stop her from doing what she believed...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
commentary - For a better sye@K5
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ripple me ~~> ~allthingsgo: gateway to Garden of Perfect Brightess in crypto-cash
rubbing u ~~> ~procrasti: getaway to HE'LL
Hey! at least he was in a stable relationship. - procrasti
Enter K5 via my lair
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come join me on the front line, MC! (3.00 / 2) (#76)
by N0574 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 11:05:44 PM EST
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I can get you a teaching job here in the Far East if you like. I know, not exactly Ecuador, but you can develop your teaching method here and then move on to Laos or Burma...Both of which are quite dark from space, I notice.
- NCCTG N0574 CANCER PROTOCOL
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many publishers these days will let you release your material online for free in parallel with the dead-tree printing. the advantage of getting a dead-tree publisher behind you is marketing muscle, and some monitization.
Personally, I'm not convenced that in-person learning is much (or any) more effective than reading a good book, and you are obviously a good writer.
I think you might do better both in educating the largest number of people and in generating fame by focusing on writing (and distribution of that writing) Perhaps you should start with a guide? If you did decide to teach in person, having written the material certanly wouldn't hurt.
The other thing to think about is working with someone to setup corrispondence schools. I don't know of any good, free, online 'how to program' courses. You could touch a lot more lives by writing one of those than you could teaching in person, and it would be less disruptive to your life
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Fuck-1ng ego wankery.[] (2.80 / 5) (#87)
by mirleid on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 06:49:56 AM EST
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Didn't Mindpixel have massive debts and then flee to South America somewhere?
We all know what happened next.
DON'T DO IT MIKEY!
It was an experiment in lulz. - Rusty
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Because this isnt an article about teaching in the developing world, it's an article about Michael Crawford.
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So what happens to: (2.70 / 10) (#97)
by TDS on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 03:24:12 PM EST
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- Paying off your debts rather than just servicing them
- Your wife
- Finishing Oggfrog
- Playing your piano
- Composing your next "album"
- Holding down a normal job and getting on with life
- Taking care of your mental health
- Taking care of your physical health
- Taking care of your sleep issues
Do not answer that question here, I don't want to hear your dodgy justifications, just think about it
Are you sure you don't suffer from manic episodes? This looks very, very familiar to me. Tell me, have you already started using this harebrained scheme as an excuse to yourself for staying up all night? Bet you have.
Make sure you are taking your medication and book a visit to your doctor. I'm very concerned about you. I think you are very close to being carted off back somewhere with rubber walls again.
Thing is, what will prove it is that you won't listen or think there is some way you can actually construct an argument against what I'm saying. And even if your idea didn't suck, you aren't the person who should be doing it. The piano is the most important thing in your life. Or was it your health. Or your wife (even)?
This isn't "ignore Mike because he admits having been a bit loopy in the past" or "find something to bash Mike with", I really mean this, I'm very worried for you first that you wrote this and second you can't how obvious it is that something is wrong.
And when we die, we will die with our hands unbound. This is why we fight.
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- WILO by white light, 03/05/2008 06:07:04 PM EST (3.00 / 5)
- fantastic$ by maluke, 03/06/2008 10:45:36 AM EST (none / 0)
Seriously, if you can't afford plane tickets or nobody is willing to front them, this is a Very Bad Idea on so many levels I can't even begin to enumerate them.
First of all, you cannot drive to South America at all, no matter how determined you are, because of the Darien Gap in Panama. (You can cross the canal, sure, it's about 60 miles south of the canal where you run into the lack of roads and presence of kidnappers.)
Second, in Mexico traffic accidents are criminal offenses and in many backwater places as the "rich" American you are automatically guilty. Every single travel guide I have ever read has warned of this.
Third, once you get further south there are actual guerrillas and such, with enough frequency that it's not a good risk even though people have gotten as far as Costa Rica that way. Having a small, old, beat-up vehicle helps, but also remember there are no dependable auto services in the USian sense and no cell phone service either.
My verdict is that you cannot and should not do this unless you find a sponsor who has the resources and believes in your project enough to provide the air travel for you and your supplies, including your keyboard, and bringing in your meds. Otherwise it's just a disaster waiting to happen.
If you are really that intent on making an imprint on the world, why don't you go back to the thing you know works? Start a foundation based on Living with Schizoaffective Disorder to educate both the afflicted and those who have to live with them. It's a problem that exists in the First World, where you know how to live, that many people agree you can address from a unique perspective and with unusual eloquence. Use the still-potent Google juice you have to call attention to it.
Run it as a sideline at first while you study your music and/or finish Ogg Frog, and continue working normally. Give it the chance to expand to fill all your time when that includes enabling you to meet your other obligations. Let the project that shows the most promise win.
That is basically how I am addressing my house problem, and while I have several paths of inquiry open I am pretty certain that one day one of them is going to make a major dent in the way homes are built, if not here because of building codes then in some poor place with bad weather where an entrenched home construction industry doesn't own the legislature.
alexboko: I think, how do animals view our behavior?
Sgt York: Opening
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you have no idea how well you will be received there.
"Hi guyz, I'll teach your kids computer programming. And I drove all the way from States with my fucking piano."
"Welcome sir, we were waiting for someone like you."
Yeah, right.
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main problem: your understanding of programming $ (none / 0) (#108)
by th0m on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 12:57:40 PM EST
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I'm sure you'd be a first-rate CS teacher, Mike. (2.50 / 2) (#109)
by creature on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 05:03:22 AM EST
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The same way that racing drivers make great driving instructors.
Being able to do something well and being able to teach something well are pretty disparate skillsets.
Maybe you can become a qualified teacher with the concert money you get after you're a world-class musician after you've gone through music school after you've raised enough money through Ogg Frog after you've paid off your debts.
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Where does Bonita play into this? Don't you have any respect? Why don't any of your stories contain the line "I talked this over with Bonita, and she said..."?
Next time you talk to her read between the lines. I get the impression she says stuff like "Well, erm, if that's what you want to do of course I'll support you" because she's a good person and believes in letting you follow your dreams. But she'd probably just like her husband back.
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I thought you promised not to do this any more. (none / 0) (#114)
by waxmop on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 06:07:15 PM EST
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No more link-whoring, right? --
"Return either with your TI-81 or upon it". nlscb
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Interesting... (none / 1) (#115)
by k31 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 06:53:58 PM EST
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So you, too, want to take over the world,
"but only to make it a better place",
just like Mr. Brain...
Your dollar is you only Word, the wrath of it your only fear.
He who has an EAR to hear....
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i just read this. and i don't think you should do this.
i think it's great that you want to help people. but don't you think your life is already scattered enough? what about bonita?
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if you can accept the idea that no one will remember you for it.
Otherwise you will just have another mental breakdown after a couple of months.
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If they lack clean water and sanitation, shouldn't they first learn to be civil engineers? Software engineering can come later. Being able to do software engineering implies the existence of an infrastructure that does not yet exist.
I am largely unmoved by lamentations that third world programmers will destroy jobs. These people weren't complaining when the American manufacturing industry was going overseas so they could buy cheap jeans and power tools and Wal-Mart. Furthermore, only a subset of work makes sense to outsource for most companies: small, well contained and well defined projects, i.e. projects that can be captured in a very short spec and whose correctness is trivial to verify. Any non-trivial project that a company attempts to outsource to a third world country will be a disaster unless the company has an established beachhead in the country.
For Indians, I'm told that there are four tiers of developer talent:
- those who work for American software development companies in America
- those who work for Indian software development companies in India
- those who work for American software development companies in India
- those who work for Indian outsourcing companies (what most people mean when they speak of "outsourcing")
Software engineering, and I mean real software engineering, not just slapping together yet another CRUD app, is even more about effective communication than about solid knowledge of technology. Different time zones, non-fluency in a natural language, and cultural misunderstandings go a long way toward disrupting productivity.
It's not much fun at the top. I envy the common people, their hearty meals and Bruce Springsteen and voting. --SIGNOR SPAGHETTI
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Keep an eye on our funny farm (none / 1) (#120)
by Vs on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 09:00:10 AM EST
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We at UNU-IIST do this. But there's no full-time staff doing teaching, it's always researchers (i.e. regular staff) going out. Just yesterday there was talk about sending someone to Africa for 2 weeks of C++ and Python (yikes!). And who doesn't want to go to North Korea?!
Who knows, maybe in the future there can be dedicated staff for this. But there's got to be someone (outside of UNU) footing the bills. So it just adds another layer of indirection... --
Where are the immoderate submissions?
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A few thoughts (none / 0) (#125)
by jd on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:14:17 PM EST
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I don't always see eye-to-eye with MichaelCrawford, and therefore wouldn't normally read their diary entries, but the diary is talking about such an inspired project that I'm just sitting here in amazement.
First off, it's not a matter of whether you teach someone to code cheaply. It's a matter of whether they code well. If they code well, then what they earn, they hve earned by right of skill, not by being cheap.
Secondly, teaching anywhere is hard. Emotionally and physically. Expect teaching in a country like that to be far more draining. Don't expect resources (including air conditioning), do expect ferocious demands on your time, mind and body.
Thirdly, avoid politics at all costs. America is dangerous enough when it comes to politics, but South America has an evil reputation when it comes to who is free to say/do what.
Lastly, do it. We only get one chance in a lifetime to do something this spectacular. Programming isn't just about how to get a computer to do something. It has a lot to do with organizing thoughts, planning, understanding what it is that the person intends to do, and how to make sure that that is what gets done. Problem-solving is a core skill and there is much that could be taught that would constitute transferrable skills. That could have a far broader (positive) impact than intended.
I'd say go for it.
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