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String Theory and the Crackpot Index

By glor in Science
Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 10:08:39 PM EST
Tags: string theory, crackpot index, popular physics (all tags)

Recently two books, by Peter Woit and by Lee Smolin, have been published questioning whether the enormous theoretical effort applied to the problems of string theory has been fruitful. Both books have been reviewed in several popular publications, and generated substantial discussion both inside and outside of the physics community.

One response was published several days ago by Briane Greene on the Op-Ed page of the New York Times (also here). A famously grouchy observer called the editorial a long, wistful plea for patience. But what struck me most as I read it was its similarity to the crackpot index maintained by John Baez. So, for fun, I scored it.


I feel a little dirty having done this. Part of me feels compelled to point out that I know this is a newspaper editorial for general consumption, rather than a "scientific" document. But I think the fact that a comparison with a crackpot index has any traction at all says something important and unpleasant about string theory's role in physics.

Points awarded (or considered) are listed below.

  1. A -5 point starting credit.
  2. 5 points for each word in all capital letters (except for those with defective keyboards).
  3. The initial all-caps is a newspaper tradition. No points awarded.
  4. 10 points for pointing out that you have gone to school, as if this were evidence of sanity.
  5. Only Professor Greene's present academic affiliation is mentioned. No points awarded.
  6. 10 points for beginning the description of your theory by saying how long you have been working on it.
  7. It's at the end, not the beginning: "I have worked on string theory for more than 20 years because I believe it provides the most powerful framework for constructing the long-sought unified theory."
  8. 10 points for each statement along the lines of "I'm not good at math, but my theory is conceptually right, so all I need is for someone to express it in terms of equations".
  9. "Even so, researchers worldwide are still working toward an exact and tractable formulation of the theory's equations."
  10. 10 points for each favorable comparison of yourself to Einstein, ...
  11. and
  12. 20 points for each favorable comparison of yourself to Newton ...
  13. I'm not sure whether the standard quantum gravity discussion of unification as the grand theme of the history of physics qualifies here. Certainly there are not statements of the type Baez generally filters for, where the crackpot writes, "I'm smarter than Einstein." But the implication is that, were Newton or Einstein alive today, they would be working on string theory too.
  14. 10 points for claiming that your work is on the cutting edge of a "paradigm shift".
  15. "Such was the case until the mid-1980's, when a new approach, string theory, burst onto the stage. ... As word of the breakthrough spread ..."
  16. 20 points for talking about how great your theory is, but never actually explaining it.
  17. Another item of questionable relevance in an op-ed.
  18. 30 points for suggesting that Einstein, in his later years, was groping his way towards the ideas you now advocate.
  19. "Even on his deathbed [Einstein] scribbled equations in the desperate but fading hope that the theory would finally materialize. It didn't."
  20. 40 points for claiming that the "scientific establishment" is engaged in a "conspiracy" to prevent your work from gaining its well-deserved fame, or suchlike.
  21. "Finally, some have argued that if, after decades of research involving thousands of scientists, the theory is still a work in progress, it's time to give up." (One might ask whether this question gets a pass, too, since such opinions have in fact been expressed by reputable people.)
  22. 50 points for claiming you have a revolutionary theory but giving no concrete testable predictions.
  23. "To be sure, no one successful experiment would establish that string theory is right, but neither would the failure of all such experiments prove the theory wrong."
Certainly, Dr. Greene has been been working for a long time (10) on a paradigm shift (10), towards which Einstein struggled on his deathbed (30). For his effort, his theory has no equations (10) and no tests (50). With the starting credit, that much makes 105 points.

Is Dr. Greene a crackpot? No. But is this how physics should be presented to the public?

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String Theory and the Crackpot Index | 126 comments (121 topical, 5 editorial, 0 hidden)
Access to Greene's editorial (none / 1) (#1)
by glor on Tue Oct 31, 2006 at 04:19:52 PM EST

Since the editorial itself has slipped into the for-pay zone of the Times' web site, I'll put its text in a reply to this comment.

--
Disclaimer: I am not the most intelligent kuron.

Baez on string theory (2.91 / 12) (#3)
by Coryoth on Tue Oct 31, 2006 at 04:58:15 PM EST

I attended a lecture by John Baez not too long ago discussing the state of physics generally. He did, of course, touch on the issue of string theory. If I recall correctly, his view was that the people working on string theory had stopped doing physics and started doing pure math a while ago. There is, of course, nothing wrong with doing pure math - a lot of interesting physics started out as, or relied upon, deep pure mathematics that mathematicians had pursued for purely mathematical reasons with no recourse to physics or the physical world. And string theory is very interesting mathematics, and definitely worth pursuing. The problem is that these people need to admit that they're doing mathematics, not physics - doing mathematics is nothing to be ashamed about! (Disclaimer: this is my interpretation and recollection of Baez's view)

I think, in the end, the crackpot aspect of string theory is the part where you try to pretend it is a physical theory and not a mathematical one; once you make that stretch you end up making awfully strange claims. The math of string theory in intriguing and powerful in and of itself, and it doesn't need to be anything more than  just pure math. Perhaps, once day, the mathematics of string theory really will form the basis of some solid physics. That day is not today however, and I think pretending its physics in the meantime is just making things worse.

seems a little facile (2.66 / 3) (#4)
by trane on Tue Oct 31, 2006 at 05:02:13 PM EST

For example he says how long he's been working on it but immediately follows that with the claim that he would abandon it if he found any contrary evidence. So his point is not that the length of time he's been working on it should be taken as evidence that it's correct but that he is approaching the subject with scientific integrity. Now he may be lying, but I don't think the way he presents his side is that of a crackpot's. Also he does provide some tests that would provide supporting evidence, even if we can't do them yet. Also the claim is not made that Einstein was working on string theory on his deathbed, just a unification theory.

What is a crackpot, anyway? For comparison you might provide how others rate on this index, like the cold fusion guys perhaps...

My new theory of physics (2.37 / 8) (#5)
by b1t r0t on Tue Oct 31, 2006 at 05:04:02 PM EST

...is the "Finger Theory". If you want to see how it works, just pull my finger!

-- Indymedia: the fanfiction.net of journalism.
Our theory of the universe (2.09 / 11) (#6)
by United Fools on Tue Oct 31, 2006 at 05:11:52 PM EST

Things in general have no intelligence.

We are united, we are fools, and we are America!
+1 fp (1.62 / 8) (#9)
by circletimessquare on Tue Oct 31, 2006 at 06:25:33 PM EST

a theory in search of a phenomenon to apply to

therefore, useless

string theory has no practical utility or implications or testable hypotheses, so its more like mythology for physics


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

more about string theory, please (2.57 / 7) (#10)
by krkrbt on Tue Oct 31, 2006 at 06:30:42 PM EST

Editorial, but topical too...

Why is there such animosity towards string theory?  To me, it seems like it challenges certain notions that old-school physcists hold to be self evident.

The pro- and anti-string theory feud seems to have taken on characteristics of a holy war, when viewed from my humble perch on the sidelines.  Even this piece is characteristic of an ad hominem attack, rating the scientist on a 'crackpot scale'.

Perhaps you could add some more background on the string theory feud.

You stole from my diary, asshole.$ (1.60 / 5) (#11)
by V on Tue Oct 31, 2006 at 06:56:14 PM EST


---
What my fans are saying:
"That, and the fact that V is a total, utter scumbag." VZAMaZ.
"well look up little troll" cts.
"I think you're a worthless little cuntmonkey but you made me lol, so I sigged you." re
"goodness gracious you're an idiot" mariahkillschickens
An issue with #10 (2.75 / 4) (#16)
by Vilim on Tue Oct 31, 2006 at 09:09:00 PM EST

I disagree with

#  10 points for each statement along the lines of "I'm not good at math, but my theory is conceptually right, so all I need is for someone to express it in terms of equations".

    "Even so, researchers worldwide are still working toward an exact and tractable formulation of the theory's equations."

All he is saying is "The math is hard, no one can do it yet", which is different than "The math is too hard for me, can you do it for me?".

A paralell can be drawn to the three body problem (or n body problem, take your pick), no one has a closed form solution for it, but does that mean the differential equations describing it are wrong?

Similar arguments can be made for the Navier-Stokes, QCD equations, or even the Helium atom Schrod Eq. We know they are right, but we can't solve them without making tons of approximations/numerical calculations.

I read his book (2.66 / 6) (#20)
by BottleRocket on Tue Oct 31, 2006 at 10:07:23 PM EST

He doesn't come right out and say it, but he was definitely fishing for a Nobel Prize.

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Yes I do download [child pornography], but I don't keep it any longer than I need to, so it can yield insight as to how to find more. --MDC
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$B R Σ III$

XKCD's take on string theory (2.80 / 15) (#25)
by Entendre Entendre on Wed Nov 01, 2006 at 12:59:42 AM EST

http://www.xkcd.com/c171.html

Well it made me laugh.

--
Reduce firearm violence: aim carefully.

String theorist Lubos Motl gets angry in a review (2.75 / 4) (#34)
by tetsuwan on Wed Nov 01, 2006 at 05:56:07 PM EST

See third review from top.

I especially like this

"And it will never accept Lee's recommendation that the scientists' opinion should be manipulated by the ideological goals such as Lee's "diversity of ideas" by which he really means the narrow-mindedness of those who lack the imagination to learn the diverse insights offered by string theory. "

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance

I developed my own Grand Unified Theory (2.75 / 8) (#45)
by Zombie Ronald Reagan on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 11:52:03 AM EST

We start with a general Banach spacetime B to which we apply the first and second quantizations. We now construct a contravariant functor from the category of all local events to the category of spacetimes. Using the AdS/CFT correspondence and convulved applications of the variational principle(s), we arrive at d=11. Finally, we Swank rotate around the third (k) quaternion. The resulting space together with the natural int(a,b,ds) Lagrangian merges general relativity with quantum mechanics and reproduces all results of the Standard Model. I humbly propose we call it the Reagan space. This space has the curious feature that it's turtles all the way down.

D00d. (3.00 / 4) (#53)
by V on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 09:49:03 PM EST

http://physicsbuzz.blogspot.com/2006/10/string-theory-loop-quantum-gravity-and.h tml
---
What my fans are saying:
"That, and the fact that V is a total, utter scumbag." VZAMaZ.
"well look up little troll" cts.
"I think you're a worthless little cuntmonkey but you made me lol, so I sigged you." re
"goodness gracious you're an idiot" mariahkillschickens
while ST might be wrong.. (3.00 / 3) (#55)
by newb4b0 on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 12:37:20 AM EST

the new maths we have learned from developing it are  real.

http://www.netmoneychat.com| NetMoneyChat Forums. No Registration necessary. Ya'll.

Physics must make cohesive sense! (3.00 / 4) (#57)
by yllugkcin on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 01:14:01 AM EST

But how does string theory intermesh with The Time Cube?

I can't place who said this: (3.00 / 2) (#64)
by spooked on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 12:28:16 PM EST

"It's a brave little theory and quite consistant for a system of five or seven dimensions.

If only we lived in one."

Seriously.
What's wrong with the presentation? (3.00 / 3) (#68)
by cburke on Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 05:00:08 PM EST

Is Dr. Greene a crackpot? No. But is this how physics should be presented to the public?

In his editorial, Brian Greene says that string theory has a lot going for it, including mathematical consistancy which is where most other models of unification have failed.  He describes it as a work in progress, but a promising one.  He also readily admits that the theory lacks experimental validation, and that without such validation it cannot be accepted as the "right" theory.  He also claims that such experimentation is possible, just not with todays equipment (but possibly with equipment coming online soon).

I'm not sure what's wrong with this method of presenting physics to the public.

So he casts his theory in a positive light.  So what?  When it comes down to actual claims, none of them were unscientific, which in my mind is the real test of "crack-poterry".  A real crack pot says his theory is the Truth despite not being able to say how it works or what you could test for.  A real scientist who is excited by his theory's potential says that he's still working on the theory, and that he hopes it can be experimentally validated soon.  It is that desire for experimental validation/invalidation that is the difference between Intelligent Design, Time Cube, and actual science.  And this difference is why I don't see a problem with the way this is presented to the public.

At the risk of satisfying the "favorable comparison to Einstein" criterion for crackpoterry, it took years for a suitable experiment to verify some of Einstein's predictions was performed, and many are still difficult to test for because of the exotic circumstances required.

It's a pivotal point in the history of physics.  We know our models are incomplete, we can even say where and how they are incomplete, but we can't fix the problem.  Regardless of what the real solution is, string theory or something else, the answer is going to take decades to develop, and probably more decades to be able to test it.

It just seems like in the eagerness for the solution, people are forgetting the difference between not science and science that isn't done yet.

105 points out of...? (3.00 / 3) (#74)
by Arvedui on Sat Nov 04, 2006 at 01:39:22 AM EST

I wish I'd caught this before voting (if it went through the edit queue at all) to make the following suggestion:

You didn't include how, say, Time Cube or some others rate on this scale for easy comparison. So he scores 105 points, and 80 of them come from only 2 criteria (Einstein-deathbed and no-tests). On the Crackpot-scale, it seems like a score of 105 would be vanishingly small...

science is gay (1.71 / 7) (#76)
by ghetto pizza on Sat Nov 04, 2006 at 05:48:59 AM EST

no doubt about it.

I was goin g to say something relevant (none / 1) (#91)
by Chewbacca Uncircumsized on Sat Nov 04, 2006 at 11:24:27 PM EST

Then I remembered I am the science equivalent of the drunk fatass on the couch with a bad back who used to play football in High School. Carry On.

You need more Astroglide! (1.00 / 4) (#117)
by FenAgain on Sun Nov 12, 2006 at 12:41:08 PM EST

Your boyfriend will thank you! By the way, all religious people are crackpots. Far more than any string theory person. Take those two cocks out of your mouth and learn something. Moron.

Don't worry, Jesus will satisfy you greatly in the second coming. He's got BUILT IN LUBE.

String Theory = Intelligent Design (2.66 / 3) (#118)
by Sheepdot on Mon Nov 13, 2006 at 12:34:08 AM EST

As someone below said, the scientific method would seem to suggest that both String Theory and Intelligent Design are in the same boat.

You ask a fundamentalist if there is a God, of course they say yes. You ask them to prove it and they instead say you can't prove he doesn't exist. These same arguments are used by string theory proponents.

Of course, the same is said of Atheists regarding abiogenesis, despite the Miller-Urey experiment being the only actual test of that prediction, and having failed to establish life originating here on Earth.

I guess the point I'm trying to get across is that there are always going to be extremes that are essentially crackpots, and it doesn't surprise me that this guy would be one of the extremes.

Not to get all elitist or anything... (3.00 / 2) (#124)
by 123456789 on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 08:00:54 PM EST

... but I think anyone who is commenting seriously on this thread should have to pass two qualifications: 1.) Have read Greene's book, and 2.) Have at least University/College 100 level physics course under your belt.

Having said that, and qualifying for both of those conditions, I would like to put in my two cents. Brian Greene and the others working in string theory are in a unique place in history. They don't know they're right, and they admit as much. But they are trying, very hard, to finish the unified field theory, and so far it's the best thing going. So I applaud them. String theory might turn out to be 100% bogus, but until then it's the best thing going and worthy of serious pursuit until it's either proven or disproven. Nature will reveal itself eventually, once we've done the work.

---
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid.
- Soren Kierkegaard
african american content (1.50 / 4) (#126)
by ditkis on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 12:47:00 PM EST



String Theory and the Crackpot Index | 126 comments (121 topical, 5 editorial, 0 hidden)
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