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The Shame of Adult Male Virginity

By FreeBSD in Culture
Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 03:25:33 AM EST
Tags: Focus On... (all tags)
Focus On...

My feeling is that somewhere between the ages of 18 and 22-25 society starts expecting men to not be virgins. Well, maybe "expecting" is not the right word, but that's the age range where I started feeling shame about being a virgin. There are many advantages to being a virgin: you know you're not diseased, you know you're not a daddy and you don't have a woman who has reached deep into your inner feelings and can manipulate you with that leverage. A quick side note about diseases: besides the scary lifelong and life-threatening sexually transmitted diseases it is estimated that as many as 50% of sexually active singles have Genital Warts, for which there is no cure. They are extremely easy to transfer between partners and can be a precursor to penile, cervical and rectal cancer.


When I was 18 or 19 I felt that being a virgin was still okay; one day I confidently stated this at work--a receiving/shipping air & truck terminal, blue collar work with older union guys who openly talked about sex all the time--and felt extremely shamed at the response I got. In retrospect they weren't judgemental but surprised, and two of them offered to "pay" for me, and I felt insulted and ashamed at that. As I went through my 20's I matured in many ways: I became completely financially responsible for myself, I moved out of Mom's house, I worked my way through college and built a successful career. I was a responsible, productive adult, but I wasn't dating. Although I felt shame from time to time about being a virgin I had an inner confidence that once I started dating things would go well for me; I was overweight but otherwise good looking, and I had the job and finances going my way [insert your own confidences and no-confidences here]; what wasn't to like? At age 27 I finally started dating but constantly got the "let's just be friends" and variants of that. Then I felt something was wrong with me; I was missing something. Here I am, 27, dating, but women aren't going for me. I suddenly felt like I was 14 again: just starting to like girls but clueless about them. It was a very weird feeling to feel so adult and so childish at the same time, and I felt that my lack of experience with women was a large part of why they weren't interested. I was 27 then and they expected me to know how to woo and seduce a woman. I don't know if that's what they all thought, but my 4-year woman date/friend (on and off) definitely has an issue with being my first sexual experience, and I've overheard other conversations of women my age indicating they vastly prefer experienced men. As the years went by into my 30's I became more and more shy and now am deathly afraid of a woman or my peers making me feel ashamed or juvenile if they find out I'm still a virgin. When I was 28 I dated 7 women in that year, but I've dated one in the past two years now.

I don't even talk to anyone about my virginity anymore; at one time I had a female email pen-pal with whom I felt comfortable sharing my feelings and getting her point of view but after a year quit learning from her and felt I was whining all the time, and briefly I shared some inner thoughts with my married sister but felt disrespected in her responses, and I no longer talk about sex or virginity with my 4-year lady friend because I know she would've slept with me by now if she ever wanted to, and conversing with her about sex feels like getting rejected all over again; I feel like she thinks of me as her girlfriend or a neutered guy; if she reinforces her unwillingness to have sex with me it's a direct rejection, but even if she tries to encourage me it's like she's saying "you're not good enough for me, but if you could find someone desperate enough to have sex with you...."

Of course, there are many parts of our society that encourage or even insist that men remain virgins until marriage. This site is not to debate that; if your values or beliefs lead you to stay a virgin I have no problem with that and respect you for it. This site is to help those who are adult frustrated involuntary virgins from feeling so bad.

It's Not As Bad As We Think

I'm about to stop composing for today, but I don't want to end on a whiny, shaming, "I feel bad" mood, because you had that before you read all this. I think a lot of our problem is self-shaming, and I don't think others think our being an older virgin is as bad as we think; I'm beginning to suspect there is a lot of understanding and acceptance available to us if we opened up a bit. Everyone is insecure about something. I am no longer just overweight but obese, yet when I take the time to pull my head out of my ass I realize that people--even women--react very positively to me, and I sense attraction from women. Some of you might think you're ugly or otherwise undesirable, but look around and some of the guys with women and you'll see there is always somebody uglier or less desirable with a woman. Our feelings of insecurity and desperation are self-feeding, and they show through to women; I'm sure of this. When I'm attracted to a woman is when it all falls apart for me. When I'm not feeling that way women are fine and warm with me. I'll bet you're the same way.

I believe that our insecurities sabotage our advances towards women. I think women are very accommodating, but they want us to drive. Some women don't want to deal with an inexperienced lover, but I believe if I approached my 4-year lady friend with straightforward statements of intention and my experience I would've had sex with her, but instead I approached her almost apologetically and almost begging; in retrospect it was like I was asking "please, mommy, can I have some sex?" or "will you teach me to have sex?" I think it would've been much more likely to succeed if I had confidently said something like "I'm a bit nervous about sex, but I want to rub your feet [she likes when I do that], massage your body and see where that leads." Or maybe it would've been better just to do it and not say it.

In short I think if we can accept our virginity and lack of experience yet still proceed with confidence the women will feel relaxed and accommodating and not feel like they have to teach us to be men. Much easier to say than do, of course, but perhaps if we can air out our insecurities here anonymously and get our heads (both of them) on straight we can finally feel confident, loved and accepted.

One of the first things I'm asked whenever I (rarely) tell someone I'm a virgin: "Do you masturbate?" I don't think it's funny when they ask, but it happens every time, and I think that's funny. Maybe that indicates that they aren't judging me but reflect upon their own insecurities and wonder how I can go for long without an orgasm?

I Got Laid!

Well, I got laid. And I'll give you my thoughts before and after, and describe as best I can the experience of losing my virginity to a paid escort in a hotel room in Windsor, Ontario (Canada). This is really long and rambling, and it changes subjects rapidly a few times, but that's what you get. I think I'm more apt to go try to get laid some more rather than refine this. I hope this helps! It's divided into three smaller headlines. If you want the Penthouse Forum fuck'n'suck details right away, jump to paragraphs 5 and 6 after the "Fuck and Tell" headline. I get pretty detailed. But a lot of my thoughts are in here too. In the third headline "Virgin No More" I try to provide encouraging and enlightening thoughts for adult male virgins to consider.

Before: Last Days of Virginity

I've been trying lately to get myself out of the apartment and be more social. I've been getting more and more hermit-like over the past two years, and I'm not getting any younger. Frankly I'm getting fatter, too; it's a cycle that feeds itself: I feel unwanted for being fat, so I stay at home and do less and get fatter. It's a hard battle with myself, and my lack of confidence doesn't help. I put an ad up on Yahoo! Personals and sent a few emails but got no responses!

In the past I never wanted a prostitute. I was mildly curious, but the stigma was too bad, and I didn't think paying a woman to have sex would increase my confidence. In fact I thought paying for sex would decrease it, and I figured I'd then think "gee, I can only get sex if I pay for it." And, of course, in most of the U.S. it's illegal. So the combined stigma, personal feelings, high risk of public embarassment if caught and fear of the scene (disease, drugs, possibly getting robbed) kept me from ever seriously considering it. But recently I started trying to learn more about it. It's really hard to find that sort of info! For a couple of weeks I had no solid info, then I found the World Sex Guide web site. It includes forums where guys post their experiences with prostitutes including prices, tips and such. I read and read and read and got a better idea of what the costs, procedures and risks would be for given areas. Many of these guys are "sex tourists" or "hobbyists" who regularly visit prostitutes. Some are single and some are married or otherwise in a relationship. Even here I found no info about losing your virginity to a prostitute, but you can't have everything, can you? For more general prostitute info and links, go to my American Prostitution freesite linked below.

Reading about the hows, wheres, costs and risks of prostitution took much of the fear of the unknown away. And I found out that outcall prostitution is legal in Canada, and in fact the escorts register with the state! I decided that since I'm not getting any younger, and I'm not making progress towards dating or having sex I would start seriously considering paying a prostitute. For various cost, referral and risk reasons, my three preferred options were to hire a local outcall girl to come to my house ($300/hr), drive to another state that seems to not be cracking down on some strip clubs offering sex in the back rooms ($90/half hour or orgasm, whichever first) and driving to Canada, getting a room and hiring an outcall escort (legal, $150-$300 per hour Canadian = $107-$214 US, plus gas, tolls and hotel, hotel rates vary, 2-3 hour rates available). I decided I wanted a girl who would not make me feel rushed or hurt my ego in any way, so I decided Canada was the way to go because the girls' contact information and reputation are fully public because they are legal and registered. I picked an independent escort (as opposed to an agency) that seemed well-recommended and relatively cheap to boot. I emailed her and told her where I was from, how I heard of her and that I was looking to lose my virginity in hopes of lifting my confidence and increasing my sex drive. I told her I'd like to come up on my day off. She emailed back and was pretty friendly but said she had a cold and was taking the weekend off. She did ask me to let her know if I could come up later.

Fuck and Tell: The Gory Details

By now I had pretty much psyched myself into doing it. I really didn't need to spend the $300 or so on the trip, but like I said I'm not getting any younger. I thought I might change my mind between days off, but I didn't. I made up my mind to do it. I emailed her a day ahead of time and told her I was coming up and asked if she was avaialbe. Unfortunately I didn't get an answer before I left the next morning, but I went anyway. If I were to do it over again, I would plan farther ahead, reserve a room ahead of time and reserve the escort's time ahead of time and make sure I left with several hours to spare. Food for thought if anyone follows in my tracks, but as you'll see it worked out okay for me this time. As I drove I realized it was a Friday and probably one of her busiest days. I had hoped to get there by early afternoon, but I left so late I'd be lucky to get there by 6pm. I called her from what I thought was three hours away and made the appointment. She sounded quiet and shy when answering the phone, and I wasn't quite sure how to handle the situation; I felt very self conscious sitting at a phone booth and making an appointment to pay for sex. Of course I was nervous too, and I got the feeling she was nervous bout meeting someone new. I identified myself and she recognized my name from the emails. Anyway I kept the call very short and we estimated that the appointment would be at 7pm. I decided to get two hours to be sure I wasn't rushed and in hopes of trying everytyhing out and having sex several times.

I was running it much closer on time than I thought and didn't have a cell phone. It takes time to get accross the US/Canada border, but not too much. I had decided on staying overnight, and she suggested the casino (Casino Windosr) hotel saying it was comparably priced to the rest. I found the casino, parked in the garage, walked in and tried to get a room. It was about 6:55pm and they were fully booked! I called the escort again and told her the situation and that I'd call her back in a few minutes when I found a hotel. She gave another suggestion, and I went to the Concierge and got some more suggestions, one of which was a 3-block walk. I walked instead of drove because I figured it would be much faster than getting lost and parking. I booked the room, went to it and called the escort; it was now about 7:15pm and we agreed that she'd come by in about 30 minutes. I told her I was going to shower even though I had already showered just before I left. I wanted to be super-clean. I used the restroom and the toilet clogged. Then I realized I broght shaving cream but no razor, a toothbrush but no toothpaste, no comb or brush and no underwear other than what I was wearing. Basically by this time I felt rushed and stupid, and everything was falling apart. I got a razor and toothpaste from the hotel and showered thoroughly and then called hotel maintenance to unclog the toilet figuring we would need it at some point over the next two hours.

The escort arrived; I'll make up a name for her because it's getting old typing "the escort" and it's very impersonal, and I'm about to describe fucking her. She's legal and registered so I could use her real name (or at least the name she gave me), but I'm not going to mainly to be sure my identity is protected. Her name is now Jane, okay? So, Jane arrives at 8pm, later than she said, but I was late, too, and the damn maintenance guy wasn't there yet. I had seen photos of her on the internet, but for some reason her face was erased in her photos; some of the escorts did that. I wasn't expecting a model face, but she was prettier than I expected. Most of the escorts aren't young and skinny, and the ones that are charged more. Jane wasn't skinny, but I wouldn't call her fat. She was in her mid 30's. Everything but the face I knew about beforehand. She had a yellow sun dress (I think that's what it was) on. I greeted her, asked her in and asked her to have a seat. I had read other reviews that she hugged guys when greeting, but she didn't with me. I told her that I was expecting the maintenance guy because the toilet was clogged; I called the front desk again and they said he'd be right up.

I apologized for being late and apologized because I was afraid I sounded curt on the phone. She started some "getting to know you" small talk, and we talked about my work, her work and some other things I can't recall right away. The maintence guy showed up during the small talk and fixed the toilet and left. I told her--in person this time--about why I hired her and how I felt little confidence with other women. Well, enough of that crap, let's get on with the Penthouse Forum part of the story. Suffice to say it took us a few minutes to get comfortable with each other an she expressed that she gets nervous meeting new clients because she never knows what to expect behaviorally. Okay, one more thing I haven't mentioned yet: She knew I was heavy and had seen pictures of me when I emailed her because I wanted to be sure that wasn't a problem, and it wasn't. One more "one more thing": I counted the money out and put it on the dresser because I read that's what you do. I had it out before she came but put it away until the maintenance guy left, then took it out before we got down to business.

I wasn't sure quite how to get started, but she must've sensed that becase she said "well, I guess we should get started". I stammered a bit and said "I'm all for that" but couldn't quite figure out what to say or do next. I told her "I'll let you start because I don't know how to." She said "lets take our clothes off" and started taking hers off. I took of mine and helped her with her zipper. She told me to lie down on the bed and I did. She was wearing a black lacey bra and panty combination and asked if I wanted them on or off; I was trying to decide and she took them off. She had a shaved pussy and had a pierced belly button. Her tits weren't as shapely or large as most strippers or porn stars, but I wasn't complaining.

I was somewhat nervous, but not so much that it paralized me. I had the knowledge that we were going to fuck and my looks and performance didn't matter and that took a lot of the anxiety away. She laid in bed next to me with her naked body against mine. She said "hi" and I said "it's nice to meet you." She laid on top of me and kissed me quite a bit. She then worked her way down by chest and belly to my balls, rubbing her hands and nails all over me and rubbing her tits on my cock while it got hard--that didn't take long! When I was hard she started licking my balls. Oh my God that felt great! (When masturbating I've never played with my balls much; this was quite a new sensation.) She put as much of her tounge as she could on my balls and licked up and around them. I could feel the texture of her tounge. She licked from the back of my sack near my anus up. Wow. You gotta try that...never felt anything like that when masturbating. She said she could taste the soap and I apologized, but she laughed and said that was fine and it smelled nice, and I figured better soap than shit. Make a note to rinse very thoroughly when bathing before sex. She licked my balls for a while and ran her nails over my lower belly and on my upper inner thighs near my anus. That area is quite sensitive and I've never stimulated it before...I gotta remember to try that on women in the future as it must feel good to them, too.

She got a flavored condom (she brought them) and put it on me. It was cherry flavored and I laughed and said that was appropriate. She laughed too because I don't think she planned it that way. She put the condom on me and went down on me. That felt really good; I felt her lips and tongue and even her teeth! I just barely felt her teeth gently gliding along and they felt very nice...I assume that was intentional, but maybe all blowjobs are like that. I kept finding myself closing my eyes and enjoying the pleasure then reminding myself to open them and look at this woman sucking my dick! It was nice seeing a woman there, ass up in the air so pretty and all real not imagined.

I had previously wondered how long I would last before ejaculating when having sex. I had read that many men only last 1-3 minutes. I could masturbate for 10-30 minutes, sometimes more, but I had read one guy somewhere saying that he could masturbate a long time but comes quickly when fucking. I didn't know what to expect, but she told me before we started that men she's been with before who've either been virgins or married and not fucking thier wives for years can't always come with her, and that they have to masturbate to finish. Sure enough, the blowjob felt great but I never felt close to coming. But it still felt great!

After a few minutes of her sucking my dick she sat up and said "are your ready for some screwing?" Hell yeah. She asked me what position, and I said lets start with her on her back. I'm fat and I knew I couldn't lie on top of her, and this was one of my concerns about sex with women, so I was eager to figure out how I'd manage to fuck. She laid on her back and spread her legs. I resisted the idea to play doctor and get a close look at what a real twat looks like up close, but I did rub my finger around her pussy lips a bit and between them. She liked that. I was slightly concerned about getting my dick in her because my belly was starting to look really big and in the way, but it wasn't a problem and I penetrated with a little hand guidance from her. (I'm fat enough where I can't quite see my dick go in.)

Wow guys, pussy feels great! I mean it really feels good! It's like it's made to please our cocks or something. (Oh yeah.) I've masturbated with various sex toys including a Cyberskin pussy, but there's no substitute for the real thing. It felt hot inside--not just warm--and it felt like there were muscles at the opening of her vagina squeezing my cock gently. I was very slow and gentle at first, trying to figure out how best to put my hips, hands and knees to support myself and get the deepest penetration. I can tell sex would be more fun without my big belly in the way, but it's definitely possible and pleasurable to fuck when you're fat. I'm not sure how to describe the feeling of my cock deep inside her. Squishy, warm and soft don't really seem to get the point across. It feels great, but I'm sure it would've felt better without the condom. (Would NEVER go condomless with a prostitute, though.) She seemed to enjoy the fucking and told me several times that felt good. I tried some shallow thrusts and some deep thrusts, but all fairly slowly. It felt really good but I still wasn't close to coming. Again I kept finding myself closing my eyes and savoring the feelings like I do when I masturbate, except that this time I don't have to pretend that I'm fucking a woman because I know it's real. I kept reminding myself to open my eyes and look at her. Her body below me, her legs out to the side and behind me, her tits bouncing gently as I thrust. A couple of times I pulled a bit far back and came partway out and didn't go back in smoothly. I asked her if that hurt and she said no.

I want to talk a bit about my frame of mind. It wasn't like "Yippee, yeehah I'm fucking, I'm getting laid!" like I thought it would be. It was kind of surreal. I frequently felt like I wasn't excited enough. I was telling myself (in my head) "hey, you're in bed with a naked woman fucking her just like you always wanted, shouldn't you be more excited?" And I'd answer myself "yeah? so? I like it. Big whoop." I mean I was excited, but not in the way you are at a football game when you're screaming for the home team. I don't think I'm getting the point across well. I guess it's more like when you're watching an X-rated film and get horny and masturbate. It's all exciting eye-candy before and during masturbation, but after I come I get bored and turn the movie off. When fucking her I wasn't bored, but I was enjoying the feeling of her pussy around my cock and the feel of her skin on mine and her hands and nails running over my body. So my sexual excitement while fucking was a more mellow thing than the "ride-em cowboy" porn films sometimes portray. But I'm not complaining or saying that's a bad thing. It compares more to enjoying great food. You don't jump up and down and scream "YEAH! Fuckin' great steak!" but you sit there and savor the flavors and the moment. That's what sexual excitement was like for me; it was being mellow enough to feel all the sensations of her pussy and body against me while being energetic enough to thrust in and out.

She told me ahead of time that there's no trick to it, just do what feels good and experiment with each other, and that's what we did as I pumped her and tried a few different adjustments and she moved her hips and legs here or there. After a while I told her I wanted to try doggie style. She got on all fours and put her legs wide. For some reason I had expected my legs to straddle hers, but she told me to put my legs closer together and said if I wasn't tall enough that I might have to stand. I was surprised since I'm a tall guy and she was a short girl. I expected that I'd be too tall, but nope. I put my legs almost together and she had to help me put it in again. We did that for a little bit, but I couldn't penetrate as deeply in that position and I didn't really have a place to lean because I figured I was too heavy to put my hands on her backside and lean.

We didn't doggie for very long, and I said I wanted to try something else but wasn't sure what yet. She told me to lie down on my back, and I said "oh yeah!" realizing that she was going to mount me and ride me. She said her legs were short and she wasn't sure if this was going to work, but it worked pretty well. I don't remember that part much for some reason; I don't think that lasted very long, but I can't recall how good the penetration was. (For me the deeper penetration feels better; I like her pussy grip as close to the base of my cock as possible, but it all feels good, really.)

I think I remember now. I think that's when I asked her about how long most guys last and if I was a tough customer. She didn't really answer directly but we acknowledged that my long-term hand masturbation made it difficult to come with her. I assured her I was enjoying everything very much though. She got off me and started sucking my dick and licking my balls again it felt great and lasted quite a while, and she was frequently bobbing her head up and down quickly. It felt great, but I still wasn't close to coming. Not really a problem for me since I was enjoying everything and getting my ego pumped up at how long I was lasting, but I started wondering if she was getting tired of bobbing up and down on me. I kept thinking about asking her if she needed a break or wanted to fuck some more but it felt good and I felt like I didn't want to interrupt her.

She finally sat up and said "I need a drink of water" and I told her I was wondering if I should give her a break. So we both drank some water. She sat cross-legged on the bed with a pillow in her lap, and I laid beside her and we talked some more. We talked a bit about our fucking and some other things. My cock was staying hard but finally started deflating a bit after a while. I said "uh-oh, I'm going down" and she started sucking it again and perked it right back up. She licked and sucked, but I really wanted to fuck her some more but was a bit shy about asking and couldn't figure out how to ask nicely, so I finally said "I'd like to screw you, but I can't figure out a nice way to ask." She laughed and said there really isn't a nice way and laid down.

I was able to put my dick in her myself this time, and I once again savored her pussy. I fucked slowly for a bit, and then went faster. I went deeper and faster, and she was into it and I was into it. I went what I thought was all-out, but I'm sure I could've pumped harder if I wanted to. She reached up an braced agains the headboard to keep from slipping, and I pumped and pumped away. I started feeling a tingling in my loins as her pussy muscles slid and gripped, and the base of my cock felt more excited and I realized I was probably going to be able to come. I had actually started worrying about not being able to come with her and briefly wondered about whether about my virgin status if I fucked her but didn't come, but that was a brief thought that went away because we were having too much fun. But it was good to know I could last long and still come with a woman. So I continued pumping quickly and firmly as deeply as I could, and her breathing changed and she moaned a bit. (When masturbating a woman moaning always gets me hotter, but it really didn't seem to affect me this time, but maybe that's because my dick was in her already and I was already fully stimulated.) Her moans and breathing got really erradic, and I wondered if she orgasmed, and I wondered if I should ask her and/or slow down and/or stop, but I just kept going because my loins and the base of my cock were tingling more and more and I wanted to fill that condom while pumping her. My breathing had been getting heavier and heavier and I was now grunting and moaning at times but just enjoying the animal pleasure of it. In the past when I've used a fake pussy to masturbate the head of my cock gets really sensitive and I have to stop thrusting as I come, but usally with the toy I'm not using a condom. I really wanted to fuck this girl and come while pumping but was afraid I'd have to stop or even withdraw. But I kept pumping and feeling and hoping as the tension rose and I could feel the orgasm coming. She wasn't as active now so I think she came but wasn't sure. The pressure built up and I pumped and pumped and came inside her (with condom on) and was able to thrust while coming and it felt terrific. I slowed a bit because I didn't want the condom to break or leak, and I sat there a few seconds inside her with the after-jerks of my orgasm slowing down and enjoying the warmth and sudden silence. I wanted to sit like that for a while, but I think you need to grab the condom and pull out in case your dick goes soft inside her and starts leaking jizz. So I grabbed the condom at the base of my cock and pulled out.

Okay, I did feel a bit triumphant at that moment. I was happy that I came, and I was thrilled that I went so long before coming. I think we fucked and sucked for an hour or more before I came, but it wasn't constant stimulation of course. Still, at that moment I felt like I could pleasure any woman. I'm sure we said something to each other but don't remember what. We both got up and got another drink of water, and I laid on the bed feeling very mellow and relaxed and not really wanting to move or do anything; it wasn't being tired from the physical activity or sleepy, but just a very mellow and relaxed feeling where I just wanted to lie there and space out and feel good. I was hoping to fuck her again, but at the time I couldn't imagine being able to get it up again before our time was up. She came out from the restroom and we talked a bit more, and it was now 9:30pm. She started getting dressed, and I thought it was a bit odd since she arrived at 8pm, but I was too happy, mellow, grateful and incapable of fucking to make an issue of it. I got dressed, too and helped her with her zipper. As we talked she got the money and made her way to the door. We hugged two or three times while talking, thanking and saying goodbye and she left.

I thought it a bit odd that she left after 90 minutes when I paid her for two hours, especially since many guys had posted that the Canadian women, and this one in particular, didn't "watch the clock" when servicing and frequently stayed a little longer. But then I realized the original appointment was for 7pm and I was the late one, so another point of view might say that she stayed 30 minutes extra, and it was a Friday night, and she was probably trying to make another appointment. So no hard feelings on my part.

After: Virgin No More

Again, where I had always expected I'd want to throw a parade when I finally got laid, I just kept thinking it was very enjoyable but no big deal. Being a virgin for 33 years I know it's frustrating for people to tell you sex is no big deal, but after having had sex I have to say the same thing. I want to try to translate for you from non-virgin-speak to virgin-speak while I can still remember the frustration of being a virgin. It's like trying a new food that you really like. Let's say you've never had Tiramisu, an Italian dessert made of espresso-soaked lady fingers topped with custard and cocoa, and you finally try it after people telling you how wonderful it is. Perhaps they've built up your expectations so high that you're expecting a wonderful experience, and the first time you go to a restaurant they are out of Tiramisu, so your tension is even higher. But you finally get to a restaurant and they have it and you try it and love it. It's everything you thought it could be, it makes you (well, your taste buds) feel great, and you enjoy the whole thing and plan to eat more later at every opportunity. But even though it was thoroughly enjoyable it's no big deal. You ate it, your friends ate it, it's been around for hundreds or thousands of years, so it's not like you walked on the moon or discovered cold fusion, you know? No reason to throw a party just because you ate a tasty new dessert. So yes, sex is a big deal when you haven't had it because of the anxiety, the unfamiliarity and the feeling you're not in the club. And it feels wonderful and is wonderful and I want to do it more and more, but I don't feel the need to break open a bottle of champagne or set off fireworks or anything, which are some of the things I kind of imagined--when I was a virgin (a whole 26 hours ago)--I'd want to do after finally having sex.

Just to finish the story: I hopped in the shower almost immediately after she left and washed my groin thoroughly several times with antibacterial soap, just to be sure. I then dried my groin area with a hair dryer so it wouldn't be moist and helpful to anything that I hope she didn't have and I didn't get. Then I got dressed and went to the casino and played for a bit, but I didn't play much or stay long. I went back to the hotel, watched some TV and went to sleep. The next morning I checked out and drove home. By the way, getting into the U.S. is harder than getting out. Just be prepared for the third degree from U.S. Customs and don't talk back to them! They are the most athoritarian law enforcement group in the U.S., so don't fuck with them. I didn't fuck with them because I already knew this, but I want you to know in case you go out of the country.

After having the enjoyable experience of thrusting into the pussy of a woman lying under me, my feelings towards women in general--at least in the past 24 hours--has changed. I look at women and where before I wanted to fuck them and didn't quite know what it would be like I can now better imagine them lying under me with my cock in them, and I want them. I'm not sure how to describe how its different except that there's less anxiety and less imagination. I know what pussy feels like and I want more, and I know they have it, and I feel pretty confident I can make them happy in bed.

Somehow when I was younger I got what I call a Disney outlook on romance. I remember when I was younger thinking that a platonic attraction/love was somehow more pure than a carnal attraction, and I think that shaped how I approached (or didn't approach) women. Somehow I got it in my head that it was rude or bad to desire to fuck a woman. To step briefly into psychoanalysis mode I might guess that's because my parents divorced when I was just beginning to like girls and my mom was bitter with dad for years (well, she still is), but I won't continue with they psychoanalysis because in my case I think it's avoiding the problem rather than doing something about it. When I started dating at 27 the disney ideals started crumbling quickly. You might think that's a good thing, but in many ways it wasn't because now I felt lost and clueless about women. The Disney outlook continued crumbling, and I think some of the last of it crumbled when I decided to fuck a whore rather than stay a virgin.

When deciding to pay for sex one of my hopes was that it would whet my carnal desire to fuck women and make me more aggressive with women in addition to being confident. It's only been 24 hours, so it's too early to say for sure, but I definitely hunger for pussy like I hunger for food. It's a different hunger than my virgin horniness, too. When a virgin when I got horny my dick got excited and sensitive, but as soon as I came inside her my horny hunger has involved my loins, or whatever that small part of our upper-inner thighs are. My whole crotch is hungry like my stomach can be hungry, where before it was just a happy dick. (The previous section was striked out 4 days later when I realized what I was feeling was the beginnings of sore muscles; the soreness is almost gone now, and horniness feels about the same as before except I really want pussy instead of masturbation.) And I haven't masturbated yet...I want pussy. I'll probably masturbate tonight, but I want to get out soon and see if this hunger for pussy and my carnal knowledge will help me be more aggressive with women.

Jane said that I would learn to come more easily with women as I had more women. But from all I've heard stamina is a good thing. Then again I can't quite help wonder if there was a nervousness or lack of intimacy that contributed to making hard for me to come. If my loins hunger and I get a woman into bed--a woman who wants to fuck me for pleasure and not for mone--if I will be more excited and come faster. We'll have to see, and I hope to find out soon!

Now, there probably still are some problems. I know what it's like to fuck a woman, and I have confidence that I can fuck and not come in 20 seconds, and I have confidence that I can get a hard-on quickly (Jane commented that I got it up quickly when it was time to get busy.) However, aside from calling an escort and booking an appointment I still haven't seduced a woman, and I haven't "closed the sale" to get her into bed. I'll try not to worry about that, though, and let instinct be my guide. (I'm reareading parts of this the next day; I think "closing the sale" is not a valid concept after all. As I discuss more later on I don't think there are "steps" or "events" to worry about. I think there's no magic moment between not having sex and having sex that is something to make a big deal about, but as virgins it is a big deal to us because it's the perceived barrier between being a virgin and not being a virgin. But it's not a real barrier; it's in your head. As I say later it's like when a movie uses music, sound effects and camera angles to build up tension and then release it, but the only real life build up and release with sex is the orgasm, and that's actually a mellow excitement more than a high-tension movie excitement. So there's no "close the sale" moment but instead it's just a part of getting to know a woman, and sometimes you're compatible enough and things keep building up and you orgasm. Actually you can have lots of fun without orgasming, too.)

(This paragraph was written the day after most of this and is a continuation of the parenthetical comments in the last paragraph.) Even with the prostitute there was no magic distinction between having sex and not having sex. If you had to draw a line between sex and not sex you might think to draw it when we got undressed together or when she started pleasuring me. But when was that? When I saw her in person? When we hugged in bed? When she kissed my lips? When she rubbed her tits on me? When she put the condom on? When I put the money on the table? I know as a virgin you might put the "sex/not sex" line around the time between when we took our clothes off and the time she started sucking my dick; at least that's where I would've put the line when I was a virgin. But it was a long process in reality. There was no actual point in time dividing the time when I wasn't expecting sex to when I knew sex was iminent. From the reading about prostitution, to selecting this escort in Canada, to emailing her, to calling her, to packing for the trip and getting the necessary border-crossing documents, the drive, calling her, crossing the border, getting a room, calling her again, meeting, talking, paying, undressing, cuddling, sucking, fucking, resting, sucking and fucking some more and then orgasming, there was no point I can pin down where it went from "not going to have sex" to "gonna have sex", and no point really between "not having sex" and "having sex", either. It's a process, not a series of events that you can check off on a piece of paper to see how close you are to having sex. At any point I could've backed out. Even after we undressed and she kissed me and rubbed her tits on me: if I stopped then, then did we have sex? I don't think so. What if I had stopped after the blow job? What if I stopped after X seconds or minutes of fucking? As a virgin it looks like there's a Grand Canyon of difference between not having sex and having sex, and you can't figure out how to get across. But once you've had sex and look back you see it was just a continuous walking trail with no milestones to speak of. Hahaha, I just remembered the scene from "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" where Indiana is supposed to take a Leap of Faith over a wide (and very deep) chasm that he has to cross to save his father's life. His eyes and head tell him it's impossible, but his father lies dying and the Holy Grail across the chasm is the only thing that can save him. So he closes his eyes, puts his foot out in front and falls forward. What was a tense moment ends when his foot immediately hits a hard surface: a bridge that wasn't visible becuse of an optical illusion. He then simply walks across and then throws sand back across the bridge to kill the optical illusion so others may cross. This "I Got Laid" section is my attempt to throw sand back across the chasm for my fellow adult virgins to see that the path is a series of unremarkable steps and no great leap.

I haven't had second thoughts about paying for sex yet. Again, it's only been a day, but I always thought I might feel shame. Now I don't want to go announcing to my friends and family that I paid for sex, but I don't really feel bad, shamed or guilty about it so far. I don't currently plan to go back again because it's expensive and I expect I should be able to find my own pussy, but if money and fear of disease weren't a factor I'd probably go back periodically. (But if money weren't a factor then I'm sure I'd have my selection of free pussy...you know women throw it at the rich men.)

I still talk to that lady friend that I mentioned that I've known for years but doesn't want to be my first. When driving back home I was wondering if I wanted to tell her about this. I actually debated it a bit, but I've firmly decided I'll tell her about it and tell her any details she wants. And I'll fuck her if she wants it, but we live several hundred miles apart now so I'm not waiting. And even if we do fuck I'm not going to be committed to her in any way. I'm not saying I'm trying to become a man-slut, but I'm not going to play Disney romances anymore, and I'm not ready for any commitments right now. I'd love a "fuck buddy" to hang around with and have sex. I hope to find one locally soon. Update the next day: I called her and chatted a while and then told her I did it. She asked some questions and we talked about it a long time. She didn't really give any indication if she wants sex, but she's several hundred miles away anyway, so I'll see what happens the next time we're in the same city or the next time she calls me up depressed and half drunk on wine.

Some more thoughts about what it feels like to have sex: I wish I could better describe what it's like for the adult virgins whose ranks I've just left. There really wasn't anything "special" or "neato" or "super" about it. No corny porn music needed to be played to set a mood. No out-of-body experiences. Just two people together pleasuring each other. And it's not like a backrub where you think real hard to make it just right. It's primal, instinctive even. I was thinking about her pleasure, too, and I carressed her here and there while fucking her. I mean yes, it's this really wonderful thing, but at the same time it's no big thing. We've all seen pussy in photos and on TV, and it's both the same and different in person. It looks the same, but it's hard to explain why it's different to actually be there sliding your dick in than imagining it. I think when we're a virgin it's a magical, mystical thing because we haven't done it, and our imaginations fills that unknown moment with that element that makes good dreams so undefinably mysteriously good, but when you're there and the woman is naked and you're about to fuck her it's all real. It's great, but it's not magic, it's not undefinable. She's there, you're there, you want to fuck each other and you're about to. No magic, just good feelings like eating good food or feeling the wind in your hair or other earthly pleasures that are good to feel and spiritually fulfilling but still just no big deal. No scary moment, no rush of angels singing for your pleasure, but your dick feeling the hot welcoming tunnel of pussy as piece of cake sliding onto your toungue (but not like that jaw-lock feeling when you put something sweet in your mouth and your glands contract, just the pleasure of sweet cake in your mouth). That's the pleasure side, but the procedural side is more like getting into a sports car you want to drive. You know you're going to enjoy driving it, but there's no special moment as you open the door, sit in the seat and start the engine. I mean the vroom of the engine as you turn the key is nice, but there's no magic moment between not driving the car and driving the car to make a big deal about. Same with sex for me; when masturbating and imagining sex I imagine penetration as some magic moment, but it wasn't when I really did it. It was an intermediate step in a procedure of fucking pleasure. Update the next day: I'm rereading this and seem to contradict myself about the moment of penetration. But it's still no big thing; yes it felt good, but my dick and loins felt good before that because we were in the mood and having fun, and it felt good during and after penetration. So again, penetration is no milestone but just a step in the dance, and it's all good. The movies (non-X-rated) make penetration seem like a big deal, but it ain't. I mean I think a small part of my brain was thinking "I'm finally actually fucking", but that went away really quickly because I was just enjoying the experience, not the moment or any definable event.

I think the movies are what made me imagine and expect some magic moment, come to think of it. Because they always build up the tension, cue the tense music and arrange releases of emotion. But real life isn't like that. We enjoy pleasures, but there's not really a climactic build-up and realease except for the actual orgasmic climax, and the meeting, getting undressed, sucking, penetrating, thrusting and petting are all build-ups to the literal and literary climax; they aren't releases of tension within themselves.

So what I want to tell you and tell myself is this: Don't worry! My lack of confidence and fear I think were always centered around perceived build-ups and releases: asking a girl out, making the first kiss or caress, progressing contact, proposing sex and so forth. Those steps aren't climaxes (literary sense), but those are the moments all my anxiety was built around. There's nothing at stake when we're turned down for a date or for sex. Those things aren't mini-climaxes, they're all part of the buildup. Think of them as plot twists instead of climaxes. That's what I'm going to try to do.

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Poll
When did you lose your virginity?
o <15 10%
o 16 9%
o 17 12%
o 18 16%
o 19 11%
o 20 7%
o 21 7%
o 22 5%
o 23 4%
o 24 3%
o 25 0%
o 26 1%
o 27 1%
o 28 1%
o >29 4%

Votes: 327
Results | Other Polls

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The Shame of Adult Male Virginity | 302 comments (272 topical, 30 editorial, 3 hidden)
Fuck the trolls +1 FP (2.30 / 23) (#3)
by Herding Cats on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 05:50:16 PM EST

If this thing gets voted down because it bruises the egos of insecure male trolls that haven't gotten laid because they still live in their parent's basement, put it up as a diary. If it wasn't against my ethics, I'd make a few blogs and googlebomb this thing to death just to forcefeed it into their troll heads.

See? This is what we need. Not more trollish my-dick-is-bigger-than-yours bullshit. Honesty about culture. Because face it, that's what all this is and you're too scared to admit it. That's why you will vote it down.

I hate facts. I always say the chief end of man is to form general propositions -- adding that no general proposition is worth a damn.

---Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

oh wow (1.40 / 20) (#8)
by collideiscope on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 06:28:41 PM EST

chock full of misconceptions.

>here's nothing at stake when we're turned down >for a date or for sex.

No, nothing at stake. Except your whole reproductive future.

Look at it this way. Your DNA wants to live. When you approach a woman hoping to fuck her, your immortality hangs in the balance. That is why you are scared. That is why rejection hurts. Rejection of any type is a woman saying, "No, your DNA is NOT valuable to me. I do NOT want to help it survive."

>> mean yes, it's this really wonderful thing, >> but at the same time it's no big thing.

You had bad sex.

>> She didn't really give any indication if she ?>> wants sex

She doesn't want sex. From you.

>> Even with the prostitute there was no magic >> distinction between having sex and not having >> sex.

Sex is defined as genital penetration. You lost your virginity when she went down on you.

>> I have confidence that I can fuck and not
>> come in 20 seconds

If I had just spent 300 dollars to have sex I wouldn't be able to come for 20 days. I probably wouldn't even be able to get it up. I'd be too filled with self-loathing.

Here's your mistake:

>> When deciding to pay for sex
>> one of my hopes was that it would...make me >> more...confident

Does that make logical sense to you? Come on, you're a man (or at least so you assert), use that rational mind biological destiny gifted you with.

If I really want to believe I am capable of clearing 10-foot-tall blackberry bushes out of my back yard, and I decide that I want to clear them out of my backyard and I'm going to get them cleared, and I pay someone to chop them all down for me, should I then conclude:

A) I may or may not be able to chop down 10-foot-tall blackberry bushes, but I really have no clue because I just paid some schmoe to do my dirty work for me?

B) I should be more confident because I now know that I AM CAPABLE of chopping down 10-foot-tall blackberry bushes?

Let me give you a hint: the answer is not B.

The schmoe (or in your case the whore) I paid has no qualms about chopping down blackberry bushes of having sex. They KNOW, they are CERTAIN, that they are capable.

You, however, are not.

>> This "I Got Laid" section is my attempt to >>throw sand back across the chasm for my fellow >>adult virgins to see that the path is a series >>of unremarkable steps and no great leap.

Yeah, I drop $300 on women every other day. That sure is unremarkable. In fact, most guys I know would find that unremarkable.

I'm sure reading about how "the real thing" feels different from a plastic masturbatory toy will help a lot of guys get laid.

I would recommend you take this article out of the queue and delete it. It contains no useful or redeeming information; any guy who wants to waste money on a woman for sex can figure out how to do so all by himsefl, provided he's horny enough; and nobody is interested in reading about how you have trouble seeing your dick slide into some whore because you can't see over your enormous belly.

All this article serves to do, in fact, is prove how pathetic you are.

So, in your own best interest.

-------------------------------
Hope is a disease. Get infected.

OMG I'M BLIND!!!! (2.14 / 28) (#9)
by Psycho Dave on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 06:35:03 PM EST

Guess what? The hooker doesn't love you. Seeing as she left before the time was up, she probably didn't even like you. You're a paycheck, tubby. The fact that this is the most significant sexual experience you've ever had is sad.

PS. Fuck you very much for describing an obese 33 year-old getting it on in a cheap motel with a thirty something, drunk Canadian hooker. Just mental image I need this afternoon. Thanks...

You poor bastard (2.22 / 18) (#10)
by I Hate Yanks on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 06:43:26 PM EST

Maybe now you can stop being so obsessed about sex. You're no longer a virgin - well whoop=de-doo!

IMNSHO sex is only worthwhile in a relationship where you share more than just the sex. The sex is just another way to enjoy spending time together.. but it's not worth paying for.

The best part about sex is that it's free, and given for free because of love. If you have to pay for it then it's not worth it.

I pity you.

(+1 Front Page)


Reasons to hate Americans (No. 812): Circletimessquare lives there.

Ever hear this quote?: (2.38 / 13) (#13)
by Peahippo on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 07:27:19 PM EST

"No one is useless; they can always serve as a bad example."

Every time I think my sexual being is in a pathetic state, I come (ha haa) across a story like yours, so I feel better.

I wish you luck in all your future endeavors sexual, but both of us know (myself: explicitly; yourself: implicitly) that you've started out in life very sexually dysfunctional, and that impairment is not only likely to continue but will form the bedrock of your life. By the time you reach 40, it's likely that having a sexual encounter will do much more harm than good.

Some fraction of the population cannot relate to others sexually. It's a fact of life. It may strike people as sad and pathetic, but it does free up time for the "victim" to pursue many other interests that would otherwise be consumed by all the overhead costs of sexual relationships.

Get a good hobby or career.

P.S. Don't discount the possibility that you are merely having a sane interaction with that largely insane population known as American Females -- vain, materialistic, and utterly illogical. Save your money, and you can always pursue a little Russian or Chinese honey that follows the rule that: If it's going to be illogical, at least it won't talk about it much.


+1 FP (2.42 / 19) (#14)
by trezor on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 07:31:57 PM EST

Ok. So my last 8 months have been truly shitty months by all means and definitions. (No story, no gory details going out here, but it was never in any way my fault, ok? :)

But at least I didn't stoop to this kind of low. Thanks, I feel better allready.


--
Richard Dean Anderson porn? - Now spread the news

Step 1 to getting laid for real: (2.31 / 19) (#15)
by bugmenot on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 07:42:02 PM EST

Get a name other than FreeBSD.

Dork.

---

I am living on borrowed time.

+1 FP, accurate depiction of BSD users (2.41 / 36) (#16)
by phred on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 07:49:49 PM EST



Dear God you just made my day. (2.43 / 16) (#21)
by Danzig on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 09:01:32 PM EST

Seriously, I just realized that life could be so much worse than it is.

You are not a fucking Fight Club quotation.
rmg for editor!
If you disagree, moderate, don't post.
Kill whitey.
Get Help (2.86 / 23) (#23)
by edg176 on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 09:21:43 PM EST

Read your article.  Really touched a nerve with me, and I thought I'd give you some advice, as someone who's also struggled with relationships.   First of all, big ups to you for taking your destiny in your hands.   Seriously though, you might want to consider seeing a therapist/psychologist that specializes in sexuality issues.  I'm not kidding.  Navigating the world of adult relationships is hard at any age.  In my case I really struggled because women expect (as you rightly point out) that men in their late teens and early twenties have the procedural, physical stuff figured out to some degree.  So I know I really struggled with that a lot, because I didn't have it. That really sucked and was humiliating sometimes.  

But when you're just getting into it in your early thirties, there are a lot more things to learn. Women expect more. Therapy can steepen that learning curve.  You could try what some guys do and date women who are just turning 18, but I don't recommend that for a variety of reasons.  One of which is that it's just asking for serious, Lifetime-movie-of-the-week kind of drama.  If you're not sure what I'm talking about, just ask.  

I'm not saying this out of spite.  I too was on the late side of losing my virginity as well...early to mid twenties.  And I found that some therapy was really helpful to me in sorting out some of the things that were going on in my head, vis a vis relationships and sexuality.  It's not at all a trivial thing...I used to think that it was, but now I see that in many ways it really is one of the major things in life.  Freud thought a lot of stupid things, but I think one of his salient insights was the importance of sexuality to human relationships.  I'd skip over his stuff about schizophrenia though.

A little more advice.  You noted that you are seriously obese.  You might want to think about a regular exercise program.  Not just because of losing weight, but because of something else almost more important.  You mentioned how surprised you were that sex was such a primal thing, vs a magical thing that you pictured it as.  
Being with a woman really is an instinctual thing, and it requires you to trust your underlying feelings, as distinct from the words of thought.  That's something you already know.  Physical activity, any physical activity that will get you more in touch with your body is what you want.  Yoga is good, and so is Pilates if that's around where you live.  In my case, I was a clumsy oaf in high school but a couple years of intensive martial arts training, yoga/pilates and some other esoterica have allowed me a modicum of grace and trust in my body.  I'm not saying that's what you should do, because for all I know you'd rather jump in a pool and go swimming.  But do something, and really look into yoga and/or pilates.  

You seem like a smart guy, and you're taking the first steps toward dealing with your life.  Good luck, and be safe.

i'm sorry you had such a boring experience ... (2.53 / 13) (#24)
by pyramid termite on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 09:23:40 PM EST

... and i'm even sorrier you felt the need to share it with us


On the Internet, anyone can accuse you of being a dog.

Holy crap (2.73 / 26) (#25)
by kosuri on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 09:25:31 PM EST

I can't decide what is worse
  1. The fact that a 33-year-old man just wrote a 15 page treatise on losing his virginity to a Canadian prostitute, or
  2. The fact that I actually read most of this crappy treatise on a 33-year-old man losing his virginity to a Canadian prostitude.
Hint: the reason that women don't want to fuck you isn't that you are/were a virgin, and it's not that you are fat. Plenty of virgins and fat people have sex. Your issue with women is that you are a fucking head-case.

I thought I was pathetic when I wrote like a one-pager when I lost my virginity, but I was an angsty, hormonal teenager. You, BSD man, should know better. Get a grip on yourself.
--
I'm glad that when this story goes down this stupid comment will go with it. -- thankyougustad, 11/23/2005

Great pick-me-up. (2.75 / 20) (#27)
by eeg3 on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 09:37:47 PM EST

This story is likely to make the front page, at the time of posting it's +9 with 39 front page votes. Why? Because it makes other people feel a lot better about themselves. I mean, it's an okay read, and all... but it's not that amazing, in my opinion. Browsing through the posts already, most of them are "Wow, I feel bad for you, but damn I feel good about myself." I wonder how many suicical k5'ers this post has managed to cheer up.


-- eeg3(.com)
Already been done. (2.75 / 12) (#29)
by Empedocles on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 09:52:35 PM EST

See here for the previous rendition.

What is it about K5 that attracts the sexually dysfunctional and inspires them to write articles regarding their sordid sex lives (or lack thereof)?

---
And I think it's gonna be a long long time
'Till touch down brings me 'round again to find
I'm not the man they think I am at home

There is a woman for you somewhere (2.64 / 17) (#30)
by lukme on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 09:59:09 PM EST

Quite frankly one of the ugliest, fatest and inarticulate men I know of found a wife who is ugly, fat and inarticulate.

If these 2 can meet, there must be someone for you.

Your story, unfortunately, is pathetic. Get off the internet and find her.


-----------------------------------
It's awfully hard to fly with eagles when you're a turkey.
haar (2.00 / 6) (#31)
by Alert Motorist on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 10:45:38 PM EST

I've slept with desperate fat girls before and it's fucking horrible. I feel sorry for 'Jane'. Loose one of the following if you want to pick up the ladies, fat, perveted or American
-- List your horse on FrozenHorseSemen.Com
interesting (2.77 / 9) (#35)
by WorkingEmail on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 12:18:09 AM EST

I thought one of the parts about growing up was learning how to ignore shame, not assent to it.


+1FP (1.80 / 5) (#38)
by cuz on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 01:01:48 AM EST

i haven't even read the story yet, but i know it's good because so many people are posting angry comments (you must have really struck a nerve).

I hate to tell you, but... (2.71 / 14) (#40)
by BJH on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 01:05:57 AM EST

...in Japanese there's a distinction made between people who have had sex with a regular person, and people who have only had sex with a professional.

The term for the second group translates roughly as "virgin with amateurs".

Hope that didn't cause you to get too depressed.
--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

this absolutely CANNOT make it to the front page (2.75 / 8) (#42)
by Paul Harvey on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 01:49:09 AM EST

it has sexual intercourse in it, with an adult woman!

i mean, around here, we only celebrate localroger's explicit description of incestual pedophile intercourse, right?

(and the reaction localroger's story got ... well, it CAN only be described as celebration, right?)

And now you know ... the rest of the story.

At least you got laid (2.87 / 16) (#48)
by epepke on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 05:01:22 AM EST

The big problem with this is when someone develops a Nietzschean ressentiment morality as a self-defense measure to make virginity somehow virtuous.


The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett


BREAKING NEWS (2.67 / 28) (#49)
by kitten on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 05:08:48 AM EST

Wow guys, pussy feels great! I mean it really feels good!

That's quite the revelation. Authorities couldn't be reached for comment.
mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
Penthouse? Hardly. (2.50 / 10) (#52)
by Rot 26 on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 05:27:17 AM EST

What a disgrace to Penthouse forum! When was the last time Penthouse ran a letter about an overweight 30-something virgin having sex with a plump Canadian prostitute he met on the internet, including a the oh-so-important details like the fact that the toilet clogged.
1: OPERATION: HAMMERTIME!
2: A website affiliate program that doesn't suck!
Wonderful story. (2.37 / 8) (#55)
by emwi on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 06:50:19 AM EST

I don't care if it's fiction. It's interesting and different. I really hope it goes fp.

heh (2.70 / 10) (#57)
by reklaw on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 07:29:49 AM EST

"...I started trying to learn more about it. It's really hard to find that sort of info! For a couple of weeks I had no solid info, then I found the World Sex Guide web site. It includes forums where guys post their experiences with prostitutes including prices, tips and such. I read and read and read and got a better idea of what the costs, procedures and risks would be for given areas."

This section, ladies and gentlemen, brilliantly illustrates the raw power of the interweb. Just think: without the web, what would this poor sod have done?
-

By the way (2.64 / 14) (#59)
by smileyy on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 08:11:06 AM EST

She faked, hoping it would make you cum.  When it didn't, she got bored and hoped you would cum.

Thankfully, for her sake, you did.
--
...alone in suicide, which is deeper than death...

Trying hard here (2.54 / 22) (#60)
by SanSeveroPrince on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 08:26:17 AM EST

For some months now, I have been on a quest to better myself. Most people I meet who don't know me very well define me as sometimes too strong willed and opinionated. The ones who know me well aren't usually that polite.

So, reading your comment, I automatically suppressed any instinctive, playground insult that came to mind, you know, 'fatso', 'virgin loser', 'pathetic wretch who had to resort to the internet EVEN TO FIND A PROSTITUTE'.. the kind of things I am sure you spill when you're deep in conversation with a female of the species, thinking you're baring your soul, just before they tell you about being friends and leave you wondering what you did wrong THIS TIME.

Instead, I tried focusing on the positives, trying some new-age liberal wimp concept like 'you know, sex IS all about emotion and bonding', 'you have to find the one person that will share a life with you, and let it put it up her arse while wearing that giant beaver outfit', 'you ARE special, show them that, give it time'.

I lost. I am sorry, I could not suppress enough of the evil thoughts. They come to me, you see, and they speak in tongues of honeyed steel. I try, but they are always stronger, the evil thoughts. They always win in the end.

The problem is not that you're fat or ugly or rich or poor. It's that you are socially misalligned.

Sex is a perfectly commonplace occurrence amongst 2 to 12 consenting adults. It's the common outcome of several social interaction avenues. You simply did not get to experience these avenues when you were younger, not because you were fat or ugly or whatever, but simply because you were not aligned. You're not fucked in the body (though by now, technically, you are), YOU'RE FUCKED IN THE HEAD.

Being fat is not a cause, it's a symptom. Being a virgin at 33 is not a problem, it's a tragedy.

The cure? You want sex? Get some slutty, dumb friends. Wait for them to break up with their black, rich boyfriend-du-jour. Pounce. Get them drunk and tell them they have nice hair. Pounce. Say 'hello'. Pounce.

Want love? That's something entirely different, it's all about connection and feeling. If you think that pussy feels nice, wait until you get to be within THE pussy, the one attached to a body you adore because it's run by a mind that blows you away with her eyes alone, not mouth. That you will only ever get to experience with one person at a time, a special person, who WILL, in time, let you put it up her butt in that giant beaver outfit.

----

Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think


+1 FP, epic (2.16 / 6) (#62)
by fenix down on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 08:41:51 AM EST

I intend to be linking to this in sigs for years.  Absolute literary genius.  The Indiana Jones bit brings it all together.  Somebody just has to fix the <s> tag to strike.

Straightforwardness is good (2.88 / 17) (#67)
by ChaosEmer on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 11:41:02 AM EST

What's so great about this article is how its so forthright and doesn't attempt to dance around any isuses.  If more people actually talked to their children about sex and didn't exect that information to be magicly deduced from nothingness, I think the   world would be a lot less fucked up then it is now.

Good stuff- Honest and intereting (2.83 / 6) (#68)
by siberian on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 12:40:40 PM EST

Once again, this is the type of article I come to kuro5hin for. Off the beaten path, interesting and relevant. Thanks for sharing.

Therapy (2.55 / 9) (#69)
by ljj on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 12:59:03 PM EST

I think you'd benefit from therapy.

Your very long article, where you are actually describing how are you writing it at different times, indicate an amazing need to express your feelings.

Like Fat Bastard said, "I eat because I'm unhappy, and I'm unhappy because I eat", so I think there is probably only one little thing amiss in your perception of the world.

Unfortunately that one little thing has caused you to be obese and also to have completely dysfunctional relationships. Seek therapy and when you find your vibe and make peace with everybody around you - and most importantly yourself, you'll see everything else in your life fall into place.

You'll lose some weight, and you'll meet a lovely girl who you can have a normal sexual relationship with. The thing with sex is not orgasm - that's the animal part of it - it's the intimacy you have with another human being during and afterwards. Something you can't have with a prossie.

--
ljj

-1. pressumptive acommplishment (2.33 / 9) (#76)
by kamera on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 05:16:33 PM EST

From now on when you tell people you are a not a virgin, you will have to remember that it cost you money. Which will probably be more embarrassing than being a virgin (as you mention). If you get married, I hope you have a very understanding or indifferent wife. Or, of course, one you are willing to lie to.

Personnally, I have no problem with you finding a prostitute. That's between you and the prostitute,and I couldn't care less. So the reason I'm voting this story down is because it's suppose to be about the shame of virginity, yet you dealt with it a way that most people would consider more shameful. Which in the long run will probably would create shame for most individuals. On the other hand, your hooker afterglow seems to have you some good - even if it is brief.

"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live." -- Oscar Wilde

Two iessential books you NEED, and one more (1.35 / 20) (#77)
by Jonathan Walther on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 05:31:47 PM EST

You are posting here; you seem intelligent and able to read stuff.  So I recommend the following two books.  They are THE user manuals for this kind of stuff.  If there were official handbooks, these would be the O'Reilly "the REAL manual" editions.

ESSENTIAL

How To Succeed With Women, by Ron Luis and David Copeland.  This book is really important.  It shows you how to identify and categorize the different kinds of women, which to avoid, why to avoid them, how to flirt, how to date, and how to ask her into bed.  This book is extremely effective.  You can follow it like an automotive manual; it doesn't recommend cheesy pickup lines, it talks of general principles and shows you how to apply them to different scenarios, and warns of various pitfalls and gotchas.

Martine's Handbook of Etiquette, by Arthur Martine.  This little volume written in 1866 is to the point and doesn't bullshit around.  It gives the generally theory of etiquette and manners, then shows how to apply the principles to eating, dancing, conversing, walking in the street, and other areas of life.  It doesn't waste time with what it calls "silver fork nonsense", but gets down to brass tacks; the real stuff that you can apply anytime, anywhere.  Follow this book, and you will attract a high quality of women.

USEFUL

The Rules, by Ellen Fein, and Sherrie Schneider.  This short book explains the (very simple) rules that women generally follow to get a man, and also illuminates their motives and what they are looking for.  Sun Tzu said, "know your enemy".

Don't let people (or women) see this books on your shelf; they will laugh at you.

YOUR WIEGHT PROBLEM

I lost 30 pounds in two months by semi-fasting; I ate whatever I wanted on Sundays, and had one small meal a day the rest of the week.  Fasting gets rid of beer bellies.  Doing it that way, when I slowly increased my diet again, I didn't regain the weight.  Start off by trying a one day fast; increase to two and three day fasts.  Drink lots of water, of course.

Most diets (including the Atkins) are deceptive; they don't teach you to regulate your food intake which is the key and only important factor.  It is easy once you know how.

This book by bodybuilder Michael H. Brown explains the proper diet and how to fast and eat to lose fat and gain muscle very simply.  I started fasting immediately after reading his book, it was so inspirational.  It has been eight months since that initial fast; I should probably fast for a couple days again to flush out the system.

The Strength of Sampson - How to Attain It, by Michael H. Brown.

Good luck with getting in shape and getting yourself some fantastic women.  I am available for consultation via email and telephone.

(Luke '22:36 '19:13) => ("Sell your coat and buy a gun." . "Occupy until I come.")


you know what? (2.88 / 17) (#78)
by circletimessquare on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 06:48:32 PM EST

this is exactly the best of what kuro5hin is all about

totally wacked out shit like this

reading this story i felt like i was rubbernecking on the freeway: the reason why traffic ALWAYS slows down in the opposite, unaffected lane to a highway accident is morbid curiosity, there is just something essentially human about wanting to watch a train wreck and its gory aftermath

+1 fp


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

Oh yeah, (2.42 / 7) (#86)
by SanSeveroPrince on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 08:49:05 PM EST

I forgot. You will burn in hell for associating Indiana Jones with this personal odissey of yours.

Seriously, I'll never be able to watch Indy again without thinking of a Canadian prostitute expressing her doubts as to whether her legs are long enough to fit around you.

Congratulations, one small part of you will live forever in my mind.

That, and the part of you that's going to be burning in hell.

----

Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think


Interesting (2.81 / 16) (#87)
by Teuthida on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 08:51:40 PM EST

I found the general attitude of this story's comments to be quite surprising. It seems that the K5 membership is generally against prostitution.

Why?

Apart from the few who are against casual sex in general, the arguments are mostly along the lines of "it's pathetic". Why is prostitution so much worse than free sex outside of a committed relationship?

I've never hired a prostitute myself - in fact, I've never had sex outside of a long term relationship (*cough* square *cough*) - but if I were single for an extended period of time, I would probably give it a try. For the experience, if nothing else. It seems much more palatable than trying to pick up easy/drunk women at bars, no matter how much more socially acceptable this may be.

So what's wrong with prostitution? Are there lurkers who like whores and just aren't talking? Why shouldn't a man pay for sex?

A little help here? (2.25 / 4) (#88)
by wejn on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 08:54:04 PM EST

Hmm, +1FP.

I think that you might find following urls
interesting:

http://doubleyourdating.info/

and probably even:

http://doubleyourdating.info/advancedseries/

What's in there?
For the same money you've spent on the canadian girl you'll get the best "education" on the whole dating/mating subject.

It's not some quick-fix solution, it takes some time to get through the material (unless you're fast-learner, in which case I envy you :-) ) but on the end you'll probably see most of your relations with women in "new light".

Btw, you will find there (besides thousand other good advices/thoughts) the reason why the 4-year lady won't sleep with you, ever. (and better deal with it, it's a fact).

Long Ad (2.75 / 12) (#100)
by SEWilco on Sun Aug 22, 2004 at 11:05:52 PM EST

"For more general prostitute info and links, go to my American Prostitution freesite linked below."

That was a long advertisement.

If you've just had sex for the first time... (2.75 / 8) (#104)
by taste on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 12:57:01 AM EST

and proceed to write an article about it on Kuro5hin, you might be a junkie.

On being a "nice guy" (1.75 / 4) (#105)
by Pseudonym on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 03:03:15 AM EST

+1 from me, by the way.

One thing that you've no doubt noticed is that men and women have different attitudes to sex. When you've had more than a few women (and so have I, incidentally) who tell you that they just want to be friends, or that you're a "nice guy", it doesn't mean that you're physically unappealing. Fact is, if you were that physically unappealing, they probably wouldn't want to hang out with you at all.

What this actually means is that you have some quality or qualities which they find inappropriate in a partner.

Think about it biologically for a moment. If you are male, your optimal strategy is to impregnate as many women as possible. So for men, sex is important.

If you are female, your optimal strategy is to politically tie yourself to an appropriate male; one who can provide and protect. (Your subsequent optimal behaviour is to have affairs with younger males, but that's another topic.)

If you're the "girlfrield", or the "nice guy", it almost always means that women don't see you as a good long-term prospect. It's got nothing to do with your looks or your sexual technique.

FreeBSD: In your specific case, I hardly know you, so I'm not in a position to judge. Even if I were, I'm a terrible judge of these things. Your confidence (or lack thereof), or issues related to your parents' divorce may have something to do with it, or it may be something else completely. The advice of getting some therapy, perhaps with a psychologist or perhaps with a sex counsellor, is good.


sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
an unconventional response (2.20 / 10) (#106)
by krkrbt on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 03:53:02 AM EST

the guy who had a lot to do with the US government's remote viewing program did some meditating in front of a copper wall, and soon found that he could see all sorts of energetic phenomena that are beyond the ability of the majority of humans to perceive (conciously, that is).  Auras, meridians, accupuncture points, chakras, etc, etc - Ingo Swann could see them all, and in explicit detail.

One thing that's largely missing from occult literature is any discription of the energetics of  sex.  One of the things Ingo did with his new skill (perception of subtle energies) was observe sexual encounters between people.  

Most books describe 7 primary "chakras", when there are actually 10.  The other three just weren't talked about in polite society.

She licked from the back of my sack near my anus up. Wow. You gotta try that...never felt anything like that when masturbating.

One or two of these chakras are in this area.  Breast nipples also have ("secondary") chakras, and they commonly get licked too.  Licking stimulates chakras, which is why it feels good.

We've all seen pussy in photos and on TV, and it's both the same and different in person. It looks the same, but it's hard to explain why it's different to actually be there sliding your dick in than imagining it.

At an other-than-concious level, you experience the energy of another human.  Which is absent from a picture.

I picked up a book in a used bookstore once that claimed that, in all speicies, females actually do all the choosing when it came to mating.  This is essentially what Ingo observed.  Males & Female (humans) each have their own set of observable energetic state changes that they go through whenever they get "horny".  The primary difference between the two, is that if "mr. right now" is around when a woman gets horny, things start happening regardless of whether the male unit really wants to or not.  When a male gets horny (and just about any woman would do) ... well, the lady's don't come a flockin', and either someone who's willing is around (wife/gf), he relieves himself manually, or he forces the encounter.  (see Psychic Sexuality for Mr. Swann's observations)

read somewhere once that in aboriginal societies, an older woman will "initiate" younger males.  Don't remember the source.  This initiation changes the male energy so that a female energy probe goes from from a universal "definitely wouldn't fuck him" to a "possibly fuckable" (depending on the female doing the probing).  

Having had your dick energies "initiated", I think you'll have an easier time getting laid now, though you could probably use some help, as you say you're overweight...  The LayGuide is good enough to get you started.  There is a lot of crappy information (i.e., not very good/effective/useful) for sale in the "seduction" field, so feel free to email me and i can suggest some more advanced material, if you're interested.

Something to consider:  even "speed-seducer" (trademarked term, used without permission) #1, "Ross Jefferies", got pitty-fucked in college...  And if you're out of college, or no-one who's willing to pitty-fuck you is around, even the best linguistic "pattern" isn't going to work if your dick energies are in the "definitely wouldn't fuck him" category.

Y'know, I got NFI why this guy isn't married: (2.57 / 7) (#109)
by Russell Dovey on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 05:05:19 AM EST

"She didn't really give any indication if she wants sex, but she's several hundred miles away anyway, so I'll see what happens the next time we're in the same city or the next time she calls me up depressed and half drunk on wine."

"Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light." - Spike Milligan

I call BS? (2.22 / 9) (#110)
by Alannon on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 05:08:49 AM EST

I live in Canada.
Prostitution is not legal here.  While going out to a hotel and having sex with a client is technically not NECESSARILY illegal, it generally is.  Prostitution is not a legitimate activity in Canada.
Basically, it's illegal if:
  1. She solicited you. (Sounds like she didn't)
  2. She supports or helps support anyone other than herself off the proceeds of prostitution. (Does she have a child?)
  3. If she or anyone else had ever had sex for money in the hotel that you were at.  Doing it once makes it legally defined as a 'bawdy house', which makes it illegal the 2nd time.
And most importantly, there is no 'registration' of prostitutes in Canada.  This is not Nevada.  There are no state-mandated health checks or anything like that.  It's not legal, so it's not regulated.

Huh... Rusty? (2.60 / 5) (#111)
by bob6 on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 05:08:51 AM EST

You don't keep a track of who voted on which poll option, do you?

Cheers.
sick (2.37 / 8) (#118)
by the77x42 on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 07:02:00 AM EST

the insipid mental image i have of some fat nerd having inexperienced sex with an ontarioian hooker goes without saying.

what i do want to say is that getting laid is not that difficult. put on a nice shirt, wear a shiny watch (sorry k5'ers, your digital casio calculator indiglo won't do), get some contacts or some thin frames (cause i know you all have glasses), dry clean the semen off your kakhis, shave your shoulder hair, make sure you have no chest hair encroaching on your neck, and stuff your wallet full of crisp $1 bills ($5 if you live in Canada).

You'll have the ladies for sure. Oh, don't forget to smile at her instead of planting your face back into the Similarion.


"We're not here to educate. We're here to point and laugh." - creature
"You have some pretty stupid ideas." - indubitable ‮

Sounds like a lot of effort (2.66 / 3) (#119)
by faecal on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 07:02:39 AM EST

Couldn't you have just taken our word for it that sex isn't the be/end all?

A fat ass 33 year old BSD virgin? (2.89 / 28) (#120)
by Knot In The Face on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 07:15:17 AM EST

Who liked having his ass tickled and thinks he made a hooker orgasm?

Sir, this is old skool.  Old skool.  I salute you!

Why does rusty vote for Kerry yet act like Bush? - exotron

Prostitutes in the US (2.40 / 5) (#122)
by actmodern on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 08:00:26 AM EST

I recommend googling for information on the cat houses in Nevada. Particularly the ones outside Carson city. It's much safer for some reason I describe below:
  • The women get tested once every two weeks to renew their license.
  • The brothels are protected by security, although you never see them when you go in.
  • The prostitutes will check you for any visible signs of warts of herpes before having sex with you.
When you use an escort in Canada you don't get this type of protection. Food for thought.

Also I'm all for paying for sex if you want to do it that way. It's a lot better than wasting hours chasing women just to get lucky and catch something nasty.

--
LilDebbie challenge: produce the water sports scene from bable or stfu. It does not exist.

Just so people know (1.53 / 15) (#128)
by CaptainSuperBoy on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 09:29:55 AM EST

This is a copy and paste job. The reason you can't google for it is because it's copied from a site on Freenet.

--
jimmysquid.com - I take pictures.
Interesting, (2.00 / 7) (#129)
by Koutetsu on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 09:44:08 AM EST

if a bit heterocentrist.

. . .
"the same thing will happen with every other effort. it will somehow be undermined because the trolls are more clever and more motivated than you
Virgin; I had the oppesite effect (2.91 / 12) (#131)
by the dehorned unicorn on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 09:55:49 AM EST

I got laid the first time because I was a virgin. I don't mean that like you I went out intending to get laid, I mean that once she found out that I was a virgin at age 22, she wasn't taking no. And wow am I lucky for that. I prematurely ejaculated two times that night from her lightly touching me not intending to set me off. After the 2nd time, and wanting to take my virginity when I got hard again she stopped touching me and laid back with her legs spread saying I should get in before I came again.

The whole "just quick, get in" so we can say we've fucked thing is rather embarassing in retrospect, but at the time it apparently wasn't too embarassing as I came right away. But hey, after three nearly instantaneous orgasms, I had a bit more "hang time" for the next two that night.

My current girlfriend is also one of those girls who would be thrilled to get a male virgin. She says it's good because you can do any weird shit you want and you can tell them "this is normal" and they'll have to believe you. "Warp them to my liking."

I think the taste for virgins is quite dependant upon both one's confidance in their sexual ability as well as their being comfortable in the sexuality. Most girls lack both. People who aren't comfortable in their sexuality will need the other person to be in the driver's seat. I realize I lack a bit in both; I'd prefer to not fuck a virgin, tho if my GF brought one home I probably wouldn't complain too much.



Self-acceptance (2.33 / 6) (#134)
by mike3k on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 10:30:17 AM EST

I was never the slightest bit attracted to women, yet I also couldn't accept myself as gay, so I didn't date anyone until recently. Rather than pretend to be straight and go out with a woman, I preferred to avoid sex altogether. Now that I'm finally comfortable with being gay, most of the cute guys aren't interested in someone over 40. Finally, one of my gay neighbors invited me to his home, and the next thing I knew he was all over me and we were in his bed with him giving me a blowjob.

This article is so k5! (2.25 / 8) (#137)
by freddie on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 11:51:19 AM EST




Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein
Disappointing (2.00 / 5) (#141)
by loqi on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 01:02:47 PM EST

I was pretty disappointed to find out that you'd had sex and then decided to write this, and even more disappointed that you wrote ten novels about your experience and then posted that.

Insight would have been realizing how stupid all the bullshit surrounding sex is before you had sex. What you did is hindsight, and not that impressive.

Interesting read. (2.66 / 9) (#158)
by Vesperto on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 06:48:10 PM EST

Needless to say, i just clicked "add comment" after the first 5 or 6 comments, i'm tired of filtering garbage. What i liked about your story was not the description per se of the fact it was about sex but your points of view. I think it's kinda silly to congratulate you but it's nice to see someone's a bit more happy in this world. I won't be arrogant to the point of giving you "sex advice": it's stupid and pointless, build your own path. I would, however, seek help on losing weight if i were you. Seriously, not because fat is considered "not in fashion" currently, but because it's just not healthy.

Thanks for sharing, i admire your courge (and it's nice to see K5 stil has some quality articles).

Be well, misbehave.
_____________________________
If you disagree post, don't moderate.
Not a Premium User.

Lovely life story (2.80 / 10) (#160)
by rjnagle on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 07:32:12 PM EST

Geez, K5 guys, give this guy a break! This was an interesting analysis about experience, longing and geek sexuality. Much as people would hate to admit it, many probably identify with portions of the sentiment expressed here and have similiar coming-of-age experiences that they are not-so-proud of. Oh, wait, I forgot, everybody is normal around here.

Of course, many probably don't approve of what he did or how he did it, but I doubt that he's the only one who's gone out on a limb for the sake of an experience.

I only hope he learned something and didn't get terribly hurt by It. I actually learned something about sex from this description and the prosaic attitude that people have towards it.

My only lament is that this probably wasn't the right forum for this article. To share private experiences in so public a forum is almost to cheapen the experience for itself and to beg for humiliation. K5 people may be your peers, but most are disinclined to read this piece fairly or to give a meaningful response. Perhaps it is right to give this experience a public airing, but on the other hand, there are others better suited for this kind of thing. Ultimately, who the hell cares about what K5 readers think of your experience? Instead, you might want to look at forums (admittedly sexual) such as thefirsttime.com . If you read other people's first time anecdotes, you'd find that some people enjoy telling about these experiences even if the memories themselves are ambivalent.

I think the writing was a kind of catharsis, and hopefully a sign that the writer has overcome the hangups he has had. No, of course, the writer doesn't believe that visiting a prostitute in Canada counts as the ideal sexual encounter, but what does one do with this energy and physical curiosity outside of a loving relationship? Should we just continue feeling inadequate? Stick to the pornos? Or make life-altering moves in a bid to meet more members of the opposite sex?

Let me recommend a book Living Alone and Loving It by Barbara Feldon Great thoughtpiece about the single life, companionship, sexuality.

Parts of this essay are really great:
Perhaps they've built up your expectations so high that you're expecting a wonderful experience, and the first time you go to a restaurant they are out of Tiramisu, so your tension is even higher. But you finally get to a restaurant and they have it and you try it and love it. It's everything you thought it could be, it makes you (well, your taste buds) feel great, and you enjoy the whole thing and plan to eat more later at every opportunity. But even though it was thoroughly enjoyable it's no big deal. You ate it, your friends ate it, it's been around for hundreds or thousands of years, so it's not like you walked on the moon or discovered cold fusion, you know? No reason to throw a party just because you ate a tasty new dessert. So yes, sex is a big deal when you haven't had it because of the anxiety, the unfamiliarity and the feeling you're not in the club. And it feels wonderful and is wonderful and I want to do it more and more, but I don't feel the need to break open a bottle of champagne or set off fireworks or anything, which are some of the things I kind of imagined--when I was a virgin (a whole 26 hours ago)--I'd want to do after finally having sex.


Poll write-in: n/a (2.75 / 4) (#161)
by damiam on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 07:56:42 PM EST



Best K5ARP bait ever [nt] (2.71 / 7) (#173)
by Guybrush Threepwood on Mon Aug 23, 2004 at 10:03:55 PM EST


-- Dont eat me. I'm a mighty pirate!
Torvalds says (2.50 / 4) (#175)
by jbridge21 on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 01:56:19 AM EST

"Software is like sex; it's better when it's free."

Good, courageous scientific description :-) (1.75 / 4) (#185)
by chro57 on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 05:42:25 PM EST

Good, courageous scientific description of your personnal experience with sex services :-)

Pffff... I did use paid sex services, for my late first time, at a time I was very, very depressed and mentally sick and deseperate. And you are true : something change : you are much less stressed about it, then. "Not such big deal."
In fact I wasn't even able to have a climax, as I was really, really ashamed, and full of fears :-)

Then I tried gay sex. Much more easy, cheap, emotionaly, socially and politically interesting. But it take some training and education to do it safely and confortably ;-) So many horny guys to help :-) Even some proud heterosexuals ;-) Many friends to make ;-)

But choose them responsabily :-) Don't encourage bad behaviours, and darkness. Work on building global responsible understanding and caring :-)

An interesting side note : just many, many, old men, will consciously or inconsciously react positively to light seductions movements : looking them in the eye, with a big smile and blinking eyes ;-)... listening to, caring for them :-) (use it reasonably in your career ;-)

You are overweight ? My current diet advice : lots of cake and yogurts :-) Are you sure of being really overweight, or are you just well built ? (look at these handsome 120kg wrestlers ;-) If you are exceptionnally "healthy", you will also have difficulties to find a women partner because many womens will want to reserve you for a real mariage for super childrens, rather than spoiling you in a short lived relationship :-) (By the way, mature, intelligent sensible womens, just love gay men, as much as I am an admirer of sensible, responsible lesbian women ;-)

And don't forget : we are 6 billions on this planet, with many starving, or dying in pollution or even ethnicals wars... And no, getting children won't give you "immortality" as one poster stated. "they have a mind of their own." Childrens are offrands to God and the human society...when they are not insanly overnumbered and hopefully not educated only to war and brainless competition :-)

Thank for your attention :-)

You have harmed yourself. (1.82 / 17) (#190)
by Verax on Tue Aug 24, 2004 at 10:48:29 PM EST

I didn't have to read your whole story to get a sense of what happened. I voted against your story and I'll explain why a bit later.

Most people wind up getting married at some point in their life; it is the most common state of life for people to choose. Marriage is difficult, but can also be deeply rewarding, some times even in spite of the detrimental things we do earlier in life. I think many people don't give much consideration to their future marriage.

Suppose there really is the woman for you (in every respect: she's attractive to you, attracted to you, she's smart and warm and funny and truly fun to be with). You'll truly love her, be willing to suffer life's hardships for her, and find true happiness in building your life togethr. (I know there's plenty of jaded people out there, but sometimes these things come totally out of the blue.)

How does doing what you just did help your future relationship with her? Some would lead you to believe that gaining some "experience" will make you "perform" better once you're together with your wife. But what works for one couple doesn't necessarily work for another, and if you truly love one another, you can have plenty of enjoyment from figuring out what works for you both.

Now, how does doing what you just did hurt your future marriage?

There's the issue of security: she will be wondering how she compares to your previous experiences. And if the woman you marry isn't a virgin, you'll be wondering the same thing. Also, even short of prostitution or even sleeping around, there's masturbation. Men or women, ask yourselves: who would you trust more to not run around on you: someone who wasn't spanking off whenever the opportunity arose, or someone who stayed chaste, or at least struggled to? Who would you trust more to stay sexually connected within a marriage: someone who has a lifelong history of gratifying themselves, or someone who stayed continent?

There's the issues of love and respect. Associated with masturbation is pornography. Who would you trust more to see you as a human being, to consider your feelings, to treat you kindly: someone who has had a steady diet of pornography, or someone who has stayed away from it? If one considers pornography to mean removing sex from marriage for the purpose of putting it on display, then even R rated movies and your own K5 story are pornography. Is someone who accepts pornography as normal more or less likely to consider members of the opposite sex as people to be respected and loved, or as objects to be humped? Pornography has no redeeming value, and yet leads many people to profound unhappiness. Your story contains pornography, which is why I voted against it.

There's disease. People would have you believe that wearing a condom makes sex "safe". A condom will not protect you against every kind of disease that's out there, and isn't a guarantee against the others. Men in particular can carry some diseases without even knowing it (no symptoms, and some don't even have laboratory tests). So how will you feel with the uncertainty that you may now be carrying a disease which will affect her, but you can't be certain whether you have it or not. Suppose that she is a virgin and you really do have something. You'll both know that her suffering is due to your past lack of esteem for your future spouse. Having kids is a natural thing for a married couple to want to do. Some diseases, left undetected can cause infertility, and possible permanent sterility. Even if that doesn't happen, the uncertainty about it will take an emotional toll.

In effect, extramarital sex is "cheating in advance". I'm not spouting all of this to put anyone down, or make myself feel all wonderful. I am, in fact, speaking from experience. I had only a half dozen experiences when I was 18, and didn't get married until 16 years later, which was a couple of years ago. I truly love my wife, and never want to be without her. All of these considerations and tensions came up because of a few experiences a decade and a half ago. And those experiences added nothing positive to my life. If I had it to do over, I would have skipped them. They served to hurt the women I was with at the time, they hurt me, and they tried to hurt my marriage. I would greatly prefer to have been able to give a clean gift of myself to my wife on our wedding day. To use an analogy, a rewrapped gift is better than an unwrapped gift, but it would be better if it was still new in the original box. My wife was a virgin when I married her (and a really good looking and charming one at that; when we were friends in college, there seemed to be an unending stream of guys pursuing her.) On our wedding day, when we gave our selves to one another, her gift was more perfect and more meaningful than mine.

I haven't brought up religion so far, but a Saint (I think it was St. John Vianney, but I can't find an online version of the quote) said something to the effect that anyone who ever went into a whorehouse was looking for God. I'm sure many will scoff at that, but if you are able to see the truth in it, it is deeply sad. The thing that our society seems unable to do is make a distinction between happiness and pleasure. There are people who engage regularly in many pleasurable activities, but who are also extremely unhappy. There may be certain kinds of pleasure in hell, but there will be no happiness whatsoever. On the other hand, the happiest person I've ever heard of people meeting was Mother Teresa. Food for thought.



----------------------------------------------
"It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish." -- Mother Teresa of Calcutta
hahaha, fuckin' (2.25 / 4) (#197)
by IlIlIIllIIlllIII on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 05:37:26 AM EST

best bait EVER. I appreciate it.

Jesus, it's graphic shit.

Congrats! If you want to find out more ... (2.50 / 2) (#200)
by kuroXhin on Wed Aug 25, 2004 at 12:04:23 PM EST

Try some of these cities at the top. Worked for me.

Congratulations for having the guts to do something. From personal experience, however, I would not suggest to look further in Canada.

I'd also suggest the books by this guy. They were enormously helpful.

The Economist - The Playboy of the new world order!

I think it's sweet that you waited so long to lose (none / 0) (#260)
by sweeties68 on Mon Aug 30, 2004 at 07:41:18 PM EST

your virginity.


If you have to hide it and password protect it then your doin something wrong.
Ugh (none / 0) (#274)
by daedion on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 07:34:11 PM EST

So have I, and apparently I wasnt too drunk at the time. Still, serious emotional backlash was involved, which has basically taught me NEVER, EVER sleep with a friend. Oh, and make sure she actually understands, "Its OVER!"

Hmmmm.... (none / 0) (#295)
by lithos on Fri Sep 03, 2004 at 12:53:34 PM EST

While I desperately, desperately, wanna abuse the hell outta you, (OMG! You sold some of your mint Star War collector dolls on Ebay and bought a whore! The Magic the Gathering Tournament was cancelled so you went and hired sex! "Jeez, I wonder if Jane'll do tentacles, like that chick in Anime Rape-fest 54?") I won't.

Since when the hell did this become k5.blog.org? This reads like a blog entry, sorry. It also does give me a nasty impression in my mind, something that'll only come out with surgery. I'm half expecting to see a follow up bitching about that guy at work...

The sad thing is that I've seen worthier articles that take up less space.

Also, I cannot believe you associated this with a freaking Indiana Jones movie. Only could you get more nerdier by saying "You know in Star Trek..." You could've at least used a reference from, say, the Bible. I don't care if you wreck the Bible.

I can just see FreeBSD now, sitting around the table, painting Warhammer 40k figures and paying out all the other geeks..."Well, I don't care if my knight has less hit points than yours, at least I'VE gotten laid..."

This was like chewing on an old vacuum cleaner bag. Ugh.
"Live forever, or die in the attempt." -Joseph Heller, Catch-22

Some Thoughts... (none / 1) (#298)
by Kiskaana on Thu Sep 16, 2004 at 01:31:17 AM EST

I generally liked your story. It was graphic and unpleasant at times, but very honest. I have to admit, you must have some guts not only to bring up the topic of male virginity, but also to discuss all pros and cons of being a virgin. I just have a couple of things I have to mention: 1. You should probably rethink referring to women as pussies.Now that you joined the legion of non-virgins it does not mean that somehow you "earned" the right to degrade women. I understand that losing virginity a.k.a. sex is the main point of this story, but when you are referring to your future women as "pussies" or that women throw it at reach men, you don't come off as a desirable partner. As a woman, I prefer confident but gentle men. Disrespect is not perceived as confidence. 2. If or when you date other women (non-prostitutes), you should update your dictionary. Generally average women don't appreciate penthouse lexicon (at least not in the beginning). Overall, congrats on your article, I thought it was very raw but honest.
"Bad people are punished by society law, and good people are punished by Murphy's law"--George from "Dead like me"
Grow up (none / 0) (#300)
by sweety on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 01:34:12 PM EST

Oh come on. I suppose you are constantly offered sex. Everyone needs to get off of their high horse and realize that, hey, some people want sex, even before they get married. If he wants to pay someone to give it to him, good for him. I'm sure that this will not only make him more confident when it comes to having sex again, but also with whomever he has sex with. I'm not being mean, but I might have a problem with being a man's first as well (and yes I am a woman.) All I have to say is good for you, and go get your fuck on!!

Quote: (none / 0) (#302)
by Smiley K on Mon May 09, 2005 at 09:04:01 PM EST

"I got a razor and toothpaste from the hotel and showered thoroughly and then called hotel maintenance to unclog the toilet figuring we would need it at some point over the next two hours."

And people say I am kinky...

-- Someone set up us the bomb.

The Shame of Adult Male Virginity | 302 comments (272 topical, 30 editorial, 3 hidden)
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