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Living with Asperger's Syndrome

By NeantHumain in Culture
Wed May 19, 2004 at 12:48:55 PM EST
Tags: Culture (all tags)
Culture

Maybe you've heard of it: the Geek Syndrome. You might even know it's a mild form of autism. The truth is Asperger's presents unique struggles that you might not have even thought of before.


Asperger's syndrome is a pervasive developmental disorder, or autistic spectrum disorder, recognizable by the lack of social skills and the often highly intellectual, perseverative interests developed by those with Asperger's. For a person with Asperger's (an aspie), friendships, social banter, and romantic relationships can be difficult channels to navigate.

Language

First of all, unlike autistic people, I did not have trouble learning to speak. However, I do have mild hyperlexia, which basically means a large vocabulary. Moreover, it is common for autistics and aspies to have some trouble lying, recognizing lies, and interpeting metaphors. The result is that most aspies are seen as literal and humorless.

Like many aspies, my voice can sometimes sound monotonous and emotionless. Similarly, aspies are known for giving soliloquies about their favorite subjects, or perseverations, not always realizing how much they are boring the people they are speaking to.

Aspies sometimes also miss facial expressions, body gestures, and implications. While I can often pick up on someone's emotional state from a quick glance at their face (and it has to be quick because, like most aspies, I have trouble looking people in the eye), I can often completely miss things or misinterpret them. Likewise, my facial expression is usually plain or uncontrolled.

Perseverations

Aspies tend to take an obsessive interest in detailed things. It is typical for an aspie to take an all-encompassing interest in something for a few months and later become interested in something else after having already learned enough about the first subject. In other words, we aspies have "weird," nerdy interests and hobbies.

This is a chicken-and-egg problem, of course. Do we aspies take up these perseverations because we are unable to occupy ourselves with more neurotypical (NT) (that is, something relating to nonautistics) socializing, or do our perseverations prevent us from socializing? Maybe it's a little bit of both.

Nevertheless, perseveration for me has meant spending my early teenage years learning how to program and becoming especially adept at using Windows. A little later it meant focusing on perfecting my French accent and reading French newspapers like Le Monde. Because of my perseverations, I have a more thorough understanding of history, politics, language, computers, psychology, geography, and numerous other subjects than the average person. In contrast, I have a deficit of knowledge about today's pop stars, actors, and social gossip. This sometimes makes it hard for people to have interesting conversations with me.

Sensory Issues

It is not uncommon for me to hear high-frequency noises that go unnoticed by most people. I can sometimes hear the buzzing of the lights, TV, and other things, especially if I'm trying to fall asleep or it's quiet. A similar thing is I dislike the feel of cotton balls, although I've heard some NTs complain about this too.

Another thing is I frequently mishear people and sometimes don't hear them at all. If you say, "I went to the park today," I might hear, "I went tooth per day," or some other nonsense; and so I often have to ask, "Huh?" or "What?"

Sometimes I don't notice things right in front of my face. I have more than once accidentally skipped problems on a test because the question was too close to the directions, which I probably didn't read (did I mention aspies are sometimes too honest?). Especially in mathematics, I have been known to make absent-minded mistakes by doing things like 6 * 5 = 35. This would disqualify me from being an engineer or surgeon, I think.

Social Problems

Aspies have more than their share of difficulties making friends and finding a loving mate. Part of it is our perseverative interests, another part must be our tendency towards literal interpretations, and a third must be our tendency to be rigid and conservative--unfun. Many of us long for better social acceptance or at least friends to keep our lives interesting, but sometimes this seems beyond our grasp.

Comorbid (Coexisting) Disorders

Many aspies show signs of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder, especially the inattentive type. In fact, many aspies are misdiagnosed as having ADD.

There also seems to be a relationship between autistic spectrum disorders and obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). While aspies do have perseverative (obsessive) interests, a significant portion develops actual OCD. Aspies with OCD may or may not show the typical symptoms of OCD, like compulsive hand washing.

Various anxiety disorders and anxious personality disorders other than OCD, especially social phobia and avoidant personality disorder, may also develop, as the autistic life can be stressful.

Depression is also not uncommon among aspies. My own life has too often been filled with this mood. I was first and most depressed in 8th and 9th grades when my life seemed to have reached a low point. I had recently changed from a Catholic elementary school to the public school system, and adjustment was harsh. The only emotions I knew were anger and frustration. I could only see the worst of intentions in others towards me, and I became the more socially secluded than I'd ever been before. My recover from this strong depression included becoming an atheist, changing my attitude towards life, and becoming more accepting. I still become depressed sometimes but not nearly as badly as back then.

The Aspie Perspective

The aspie sense of humor is somewhat different from most people's sense of humor. I am especially good at making odd connections about social happenings and use highly sarcastic humor to criticize actions like the invasion of Iraq. My disconnection from society along with my attempts to better understand society are a gold mine containing the nuggets of social injustices and inequalities, hypocrisies, and self-aggrandizement.

I vent my unattainable need for excitement and companionship through art. I can sketch disturbing images of distorted faces and forms as well as near photorealistic pictures--if I'm looking at the object or a photograph of that object. Writing , especially humorous writing, is another thing that allows me to assuage my unfulfillment.

I have written--even perseverated on--this article in the sincere hope that someone might better understand aspies and not write us off as clueless geeks. We aspies only want what everyone else wants: happiness.

Of Further Interest

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Poll
Are you on the autistic spectrum?
o Yes, I have Asperger's syndrome. 25%
o Yes, I have high-functioning autism. 1%
o Yes, I have pervasive developmental disorder-not otherwise specified. 1%
o Yes, I have some other autistic spectrum disorder or autistic tendencies. 5%
o No, I'm just another NT. 26%
o Maybe, I am considering whether I might fit on the autistic spectrum. 38%

Votes: 103
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o Le Monde
o http://www .aspergers.com/aspcrit.htm
o news:alt.s upport.autism
o http://www .autistics.org/
o http://www .angelfire.com/clone/asperger/index.html
o Also by NeantHumain


Display: Sort:
Living with Asperger's Syndrome | 443 comments (386 topical, 57 editorial, 5 hidden)
Just so everyone knows.. (1.20 / 34) (#3)
by undermyne on Mon May 17, 2004 at 05:51:19 PM EST

its pronounced ass-burgers syndrome.

"You're an asshole. You are the greatest troll on this site." Some nullo

This is a bit scary (1.87 / 8) (#6)
by dreamer on Mon May 17, 2004 at 06:25:11 PM EST

I often get the feeling that my mind makes a lot of weird connections, but not the obvious ones. Which is to say, a lot of these descriptions could fit me. With the exception that I, at times, would like to think I am not overly obsessive. And at times it feels closer to the oposite, where I cannot fulfil any of the projects I start out on. (Well, there was a period where I would read all books by a particular author from the local library. That is, one author at a time... Until I discovered computers. Well, it seems I just contradicted what I wrote before...) But I never made the connection between hearing high-frequent noises and having social problems. It does sound weird. And it's there. That is the scary part; a connection I didn't even imagine, which doesn't sound obvious when I hear it. I don't know what kind of comment this is supposed to be. Probably something close to a personal rant that no-one is supposed to understand. (No good reason to post it, then.)

meh.. (2.38 / 18) (#7)
by Work on Mon May 17, 2004 at 06:55:59 PM EST

the problem with these "living with ..." articles and syndromes is that the symptoms are often so general and common that *anyone* could be mislead into thinking they're ill.

Who hasn't misheard someone else say something? Who hasn't heard a sound that nobody else did? Or made a stupid mistake on a math test? With events this general, I bet just about anyone could say those have happened to them many times.

A "perseveration" sounds like a fancy word for 'hobby'.

I have no doubt that there are some people out there have a true mental abnormality that keeps them from functioning well in society. But stories like this can lead anyone into thinking they are 'ill'.

Oh boo. (2.22 / 22) (#8)
by jmzero on Mon May 17, 2004 at 07:22:45 PM EST

You have a disorder that makes it so you don't worship pop stars, learn lots of great things, and are able to make terribly witty comments about things "like the invasion of Iraq".  

I'm going to do an article about living life as a "normie".  Here's a beginning:  I sometimes stay up late playing video games.  I think it would be gross to eat ice cream off of a wooden spoon.  I don't like any of the the contestants on American Idol.  I have been known to make mistakes while doing math, and I can't draw things well at all.

Maybe it's just me, but your syndrome seems pretty wussy.  I know very few people who don't have idiosyncracies to match up to all of yours,  and I've met lots of people that have a hard time relating to other people.  I've got a relative that's pretty much incapable of interacting with strangers - really.  Somebody might call it a syndrome, I think she's just out of practice since she got overweight and self-concious.

Some hints for your article:

  1. Lose the self-serving tone.  You're not trying to sell us a bottle of Aspergers, you're supposed to be giving us an inside look at something.  Tell us something interesting, not that you have a mildly large vocabulary.
  2. Anecdotes.  Give us some example of how your social interactions differ from someone who's maybe just shy or otherwise socially underdeveloped.  

.
"Let's not stir that bag of worms." - my lovely wife
Obsessive-compulsive style (2.50 / 8) (#10)
by MichaelCrawford on Mon May 17, 2004 at 07:28:36 PM EST

Much of what you describe sounds like what Robert Shapiro described as "obsessive-compulsive style" in his book Neurotic Styles

I wrote a little bit about it here. Here's a quote from Shapiro's book:

The most conspicuous characteristic of the obsessive-compulsive's attention is its intense, sharp focus. These people are not vague in their attention. They concentrate, and particularly do they concentrate on detail. This is evident, for example, in the Rorschach test in their accumulation, frequently, of large numbers of small "detail-responses" and their precise delineation of them (small profiles of faces all along the edges of the inkblots, and the like), and the same affinity is easily observed in everyday life. Thus, these people are very often to be found among technicians; they are interested in, and at home with, technical details... But the obsessive-compulsive's attention, although sharp, is in certain respects markedly limited in both mobility and range. These people not only concentrate; they seem always to be concentrating. And some aspects of the world are simply not to be apprehended by a sharply focused and concentrated attention... These people seem unable to allow their attention simply to wander or passively permit it to be captured... It is not that they do not look or listen, but that they are looking or listening too hard for something else.

What you say here:

Like many aspies, my voice can sometimes sound monotonous and emotionless. Similarly, aspies are known for giving soliloquies about their favorite subjects, or perseverations, not always realizing how much they are boring the people they are speaking to.

Aspies sometimes also miss facial expressions, body gestures, and implications.

Matches my own experiences. My wife has worked for several years to try to train me not to blather on about technical trivia.

Likewise, my facial expression is usually plain or uncontrolled.

... and my wife, an expert at body language, very sensitive to emotions in other people, finds me a complete enigma, extremely difficult for her to read. One reason she gives for her attraction is the challenge I present her of understanding what I'm feeling.

In person, I often strike people as flat and emotionless. If someone tells a joke, I will find it funny, but my usual reaction is to calmly say "that's funny" rather than smile or laugh.

One reason I like to write is that I have no problem expressing my feelings in writing. It's a freedom I don't have when I speak.

... large vocabulary...

I'm pretty sure I hold the record for the longest article ever submitted to k5, and I think the #2 spot as well. The most common criticism of my writing is that it is too lengthy, and in fact brevity is my greatest challenge.

So do I have Asperger's Syndrome? And how would it be distinguished from obsessive-compulsive style, which I have been diagnosed with?


--

Live your fucking life. Sue someone on the Internet. Write a fucking music player. Like the great man Michael David Crawford has shown us all: Hard work, a strong will to stalk, and a few fries short of a happy meal goes a long way. -- bride of spidy


When were you first diagnosed? (2.40 / 5) (#16)
by Big Sexxy Joe on Mon May 17, 2004 at 08:01:01 PM EST

What lead to your diagnosis?

I've often wondered if I have Asperger's Symdrome.  I pretty much have the symptoms you describe.  And people have always thought that I am very strange.

I'm like Jesus, only better.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free grassroots news hour

i thought i had asperger's (1.56 / 25) (#21)
by circletimessquare on Mon May 17, 2004 at 08:23:09 PM EST

but it turned out i was just a hypochondriac

as i suppose 80% of self-diagnosed "fill in the blank" syndrome sufferers are

it is a sort of poverty of the soul to find so much identity politics at play in the game of quasi-medical conditions


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

let's be consistent at least (1.57 / 19) (#25)
by Hana Yori Dango on Mon May 17, 2004 at 08:48:08 PM EST

Interesting... I read a thread about obesity a few weeks ago on Plastic (which has a similar demographic to k5) and half the posts said something like "Yah well there might be that ONE PERCENT of people that can blame their glands, but most are fat because they don't control themselves!"

Yet here, because it's trendy to not be "a Normal"... everyone claims to have a chemical imbalance that makes them geeky. So if obese people claim that their glands make them fat we mock them and point out that because there are so many fat people, there's no chance that even an appreciable fraction is caused by glands.

Yet if it's "glands" that make you a social misfit, there's no questioning? Of course Asperger's Syndrome exists, but it's not the only reason why you can't work well with people, just like glands are not the only reason (or even an important reason) why people get fat. I call bullshit.

I have a lot of these symptoms (1.30 / 10) (#33)
by Bill Melater on Mon May 17, 2004 at 10:23:09 PM EST

but I'm just fucking nuts.

I have a better idea (1.04 / 22) (#34)
by qpt on Mon May 17, 2004 at 10:23:49 PM EST

Dying with Asperger's. Have someone tell us how it works out.

Domine Deus, creator coeli et terrae respice humilitatem nostram.

Also living with Asperger's (2.80 / 21) (#39)
by arjan de lumens on Tue May 18, 2004 at 12:10:51 AM EST

Having been diagnosed with Asperger's myself (official, not some shady self-diagnosis), let me add a few points/experiences of my own:
  • Inability to remember faces - I have some odd childhood memories of not being able to recognize the face of my mother - to the point where I would take mental notes of what clothes she used to wear so that I had anything at all to recognize.
  • Facial expressions - according to others, I look happy when I'm sad, bored when I'm happy, indifferent when I am angry. As for reading other people's facial expressions, I am able to recognize smiles. I occasionally recognize other expressions, but not reliably enough to be useful at all.
  • Sensory overload. The probably nastiest part of the Aspie experience for me is the inablity to subconsciously filter interesting/important signal from irrelevant noise (in particular for sound) - I receive it all, without any ability to shut it off. The noise then feels like it gradually pulls away from me any sense of control I have over my mind, forcibly replacing my normal flow of thoughts first with a kind of white-ish noise, then odd delusions. This overload condition is very easily triggered, too: place me in a room where 2 conversations go on at the same time, or near a trafficked road, or the kind of low-grade noise that you find in, say, a classroom, or a bunch of other common situations.
  • Aspie perseverations => extremely high work efficiency (doing, say, programming). IF I am allowed to work on one task at a time with minimal interruption. If I am given too varied tasks, I easily exhaust myself on swapping between tasks all the time to the point where I don't really get anything done.
  • Depression: Low-grade depression almost as far as I can remember (since about age 5 or 6 or so), with a sense of not fitting in, not connecting with people, being somehow blocked by a wall of invisible rules. Asperger's syndrome at least gave it a NAME, and some hints where to go next, and it is searchable.
  • The farther I am from a neutral state of mind, the harder I find it to express anything at all, as if I somehow just jam up.
  • Eye contact. I tend to instinctively avoid eye contact (I've apparently been that way since I was about 18 months of age), and if I try to force it, it quickly becomes extremely unpleasant. Force it and I will remember that you forced eye contact; I will however fail to remember a single word you are telling me.
Some other issues that I haven't experienced myself, but which apparently are somewhat common in Aspies:
  • Odd pain thresholds or response to pain (e.g. feeling pain but not being able to locate where the pain comes from,, even if it is something obvious like a broken leg)
  • Motor skill/coordination problems and problems automating common movements.
  • Odd responses to psychotropic drugs (no effect, excessive effect, excessive/unusual side-effects). Some Aspies report being unable to get addicted to Heroin.
  • Difficulties coordinating speech - from the step of translating an idea into a sequence of words, to properly coordinating the vocal chords, the tongue and the lungs to produce the desired sequence of sounds.
  • Inability to receive information through more than one sense at a time (to the point where listening to a person makes you unable to see that person at the same time.)


very interesting (2.30 / 10) (#41)
by coderlemming on Tue May 18, 2004 at 12:20:12 AM EST

My friend's two siblings have Asperger's.  This was a helpful and interesting read.

This would disqualify me from being an engineer or surgeon, I think.

You'd be surprised.  Engineers make silly mistakes all-the-freaking-time.  Can you turn your perseveration into an ability to obsessively re-check your work for mistakes you know you might have made?

I have written--even perseverated on--this article in the sincere hope that someone might better understand aspies and not write us off as clueless geeks.

So what are the clueless geeks then?  I mean, I exhibit some of the "symptoms" (they seem normal to me :P) that you've described above.  I tend to be obsessive, I can have a hard time seeing things right in front of my eyes, I'm very underexposed to pop-culture and such... on the flip side, I think I'm good at judging faces and emotional cues.  Am I, then, just a bit "clueless geek"?  Where's the line?


--
Go be impersonally used as an organic semen collector!  (porkchop_d_clown)

Motivation (1.75 / 12) (#42)
by NoBeardPete on Tue May 18, 2004 at 12:43:43 AM EST

Maybe it's just because I've already heard plenty about Asperger's Syndrome, but I don't feel like this article does anything to make me care. As you apparently have Asperger's Syndrome, I'm sure the whole topic is of great interest to you. For the rest of us, however, it may be somewhat interesting to hear about the symptoms once or twice, but after that there's no point. I'd guess that the vast majority of readers here have heard of Asperger's Syndrome, and are familiar with the symptoms. Unless you have some new insight, or even just a good personal story, this is not an interesting article.

Let me see if I can break this down into more concrete, helpful suggestions. There's an awkward transition after the first paragraph in the body, from talking about the syndrome in general to your specific experiences. I'd work on this transition. It doesn't flow well.

I'd recommend spending less time talking about common symptoms, and typical difficulties, and talk more about your own experience. Don't try to give us a brief primer on the syndrome, we've probably all heard it. Tell us a story. Either that, or actually go into some real depth about the syndrome. Pick one and go with it.

I'm not sure what the point of the last sentence is. You say that you want people to not write you off as clueless geeks. To some extent, having Asperger's Syndrome does mean you are clueless about a bunch of things. That's just how it is, you lack clues about a lot of social life that's important to most people. "Geek" is not a well defined word, but plenty of people with Asperger's probably fit most reasonable definitions.

What you want is to not be written off, for whatever reason. I guess you hope that by explaining that the cluelessness in social matters, and the tendency towards geeky interests is just part of who you are, that it's not something you can be faulted with, because it's not something you have real control over. I think anyone who is going to hold a bit of well-meaning social ineptitude against you is going to do so whether or not you could be expected to help it. I doubt anyone who is going to write you off for being a geek will suddenly become more sympathetic when you explain that it's because of Asperger's Syndrome.


Arrr, it be the infamous pirate, No Beard Pete!

Congratulations! (1.58 / 17) (#44)
by tzc on Tue May 18, 2004 at 12:58:43 AM EST

You're a precious and unique flower caught up in and misunderstood by a big, mundane garden.

Try taking some responsibility for your life (1.33 / 27) (#47)
by mycospunk on Tue May 18, 2004 at 02:09:12 AM EST

Instead of buying into some new-fangled "syndrome" that gives you an excuse to be a boorish robot, why don't you stop being a baby and pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

The symptoms you describe are completely curable through exercise, diet, and mental discipline. I've seen these trends in psychiatry come and go--don't buy the hype behind the Asperger's fad.

By the way, these types of "conditions" generally result from a moral failing on the part of the individual. Perhaps if you lived a more virtuous and ethical life, you wouldn't be in the situation you are today.

Hearing issues (2.11 / 9) (#62)
by grahamsz on Tue May 18, 2004 at 04:03:37 AM EST

I have a different hearing 'problem'. I'm often oblivious to a certain frequency of sound, which just happens to be around the point that fire alarms ring.

Twice I've been in a building when the alarm went off and had to ask people why they were getting up and leaving. I can hear the sound just fine once it's pointed out to me.

When I was in university there was an alarm right above my bed, this one was so loud that it was physically painful to stay in the room - but I've slept through it. I'm not an especially deep sleeper, and as a child was usually woken by my parents alarm clock which was on the other side of the house.

On an unrelated note, I've noticed that sometimes in environments with lots of computers the noise suddenly starts to crescendo until it becomes unbearably loud. Then it suddenly drops back to normal.

Anyone experience anything similar.
--
Sell your digital photos - I've made enough to buy a taco today

I knew someone with Asperger's Syndrome (2.58 / 12) (#64)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Tue May 18, 2004 at 04:14:43 AM EST

I went to TAFE with him. I lost contact with him, which is a pity, because he was one of the best coders I've ever met. Well, he programmed in Visual Basic - but he had and still has the potential to be an absolutely genius C/C++ coder if he decides to ever put his mind to it. He also had a strange fascination with herpetology and used to post extensively on newsgroups - but he appearst to have unfortunately been flamed and baited by people on these groups. In fact, I think he lost his email account once for abuse also... which would never have happened hadn't people baited him.

I suppose that's a warning to trolls. If you bait people too badly, you can cause all sorts of repurcussions in their life. I see many trolls think that as this is an anonymous forum then they can post whatever they want, and it'll have no affect on people in the real world. Well, for most people this is the case, but some people do have issues. I think my friend was badly affected by the stuff that went on in the newsgroups.

So Aspies do have a hard time. If the guy I knew by perchance recognises himself in this - give me an email! you should have my email address already.

BTW, I'm giving you +1FP once this goes to voting.

---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה

Reenactment of what gets the grease (2.00 / 18) (#74)
by K5 ASCII reenactment players on Tue May 18, 2004 at 07:08:29 AM EST

      ___
     / | \  *squeak*
    /\ | /\   *squeak*
   /  \|/  \    *squeak*
   ----O----
   \  /|\  /
    \/ | \/
     \_|_/


My wife often calls me autistic (1.80 / 5) (#88)
by simul on Tue May 18, 2004 at 09:45:14 AM EST

When I start talking fast, riffing on a particular topic and getting obsessed, she says "Is that your autism speaking?"

I think it, sort of, is.

I guess I've written enough USENET/BBS posts to qualify, about 2400 or so in the last year. But I know some people who post 10 times that.

Perhaps that should be a formal defintion of Asperger's. If the total average monthly number of USENET/BBS posts exceeds 200, then you've got the syndrome.

Heh.

Read this book - first 24 pages are free to browse - it rocks

+1 FP Unadulterated Genius (1.12 / 8) (#93)
by sllort on Tue May 18, 2004 at 11:46:47 AM EST

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=perseverations
--
Warning: On Lawn is a documented liar.
Can you choose your perseverations? (1.87 / 8) (#97)
by nlscb on Tue May 18, 2004 at 02:31:20 PM EST

I know this may sound overly simplistic, but could you choose to have a perseveration about pop stars or movie stars? Or does it just happen? I doubt this would help much with being sociable (that has more to do with one how acts than anything one knos), but it could come in quite handy for supporting oneself (though, from the sounds of your knowledge of windows, that's probably not a problem). I used the pop star example just a way of asking if you have free will over them.

Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange

This is annoying (1.72 / 11) (#120)
by regeya on Tue May 18, 2004 at 06:44:03 PM EST

Why must all forms of mildly abnormal behavior be classified as "syndromes"? I suppose next you'll tell me there's a drug to cure me of my ills. That's just what I need. :-P

[ yokelpunk | kuro5hin diary ]

Syndrome ? (2.55 / 9) (#125)
by bugmaster on Tue May 18, 2004 at 07:48:51 PM EST

Not to be blunt, but how is this syndrome different from just being a nerdy geek ? Or, is being a geek always indicative of this illness ? If this is truly a disease, what is the biological basis for it ?

I mean, don't get me wrong -- I myself am a depressing geek lacking social skills, and I always will be. But at least I am admitting it, and not hiding behind a made-up medical label (assuming that's what "asperger syndrome" is).
>|<*:=

What about transhumanism? (1.20 / 10) (#128)
by Fen on Tue May 18, 2004 at 09:48:13 PM EST

When we host consciousness on a computer, will this be a problem?
--Self.
Write in (1.00 / 9) (#134)
by EvilGwyn on Tue May 18, 2004 at 11:01:54 PM EST

My mum thinks I have Aspergers but I don't

Hyperlexia. Sheesh. (2.00 / 9) (#137)
by acceleriter on Tue May 18, 2004 at 11:21:24 PM EST

Guess since I had to look it up, I don't have it.

Come on, Asperger's sydrome (1.35 / 14) (#139)
by qpt on Tue May 18, 2004 at 11:26:46 PM EST

Is the most boring psychological disorder there is.

In case you're wondering, paranoid schizophrenia is the most interesting.

Domine Deus, creator coeli et terrae respice humilitatem nostram.

Congratulations. (1.75 / 12) (#142)
by pb on Wed May 19, 2004 at 12:27:08 AM EST

You've just (mis)diagnosed at least half of the users (geeks) here. As if we didn't already know there was something "different" about us.

On the plus side, now when people ask an AI researcher why his creation is so literal-minded and "brittle", he can just say "Oh, my program is suffering from Asperger's Syndrome".
---
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall

a few comments (1.85 / 7) (#148)
by tiger on Wed May 19, 2004 at 01:19:39 AM EST

You did a nice job of explaining Asperger's syndrome, and telling how it has affected you.

My own opinion about Asperger's syndrome and similar so-called developmental disorders such as autism and Tourette's, is that people such as yourself have a non-standard allocation plan that connects your unconscious mind (which does all the mental work) with your awareness (your consciousness). This explanation may sound a bit odd, but I have written about it in detail in the Orgasm section of an online book I wrote.

The bottom-line is that I do not see people with such conditions as yours as being mentally ill in any way or as having any kind of neurological defect or other physical problem.

Also, regarding when you say:

Depression is also not uncommon among aspies. My own life has too often been filled with this mood. I was first and most depressed in 8th and 9th grades when my life seemed to have reached a low point. I had recently changed from a Catholic elementary school to the public school system, and adjustment was harsh. The only emotions I knew were anger and frustration. I could only see the worst of intentions in others towards me, and I became the more socially secluded than I'd ever been before. My recover from this strong depression included becoming an atheist, changing my attitude towards life, and becoming more accepting. I still become depressed sometimes but not nearly as badly as back then.

The government schools are deliberately designed to be harmful, as I explain here.

--
Americans :— Say no to male genital mutilation. In Memory of the Sexually Mutilated Child



Synaesthesia? (2.62 / 8) (#156)
by gordonjcp on Wed May 19, 2004 at 03:43:56 AM EST

Anyone else here get that? I can remember, from a very young age, always associating images and tones with each other. A particular shape has a particular sound, a particular sound has a recognisable shape.
When we went on long car journeys, I would sit there humming little tunes to myself. I remember try to explain to my Mum, when she asked what tune it was, that it was the sounds of the shapes of things we were driving past. Landscapes were great - big flattish expanses of moorland sound like a kind of shifting stringy sort of sound, with telephone poles providing a strong rhythm (as an aside, there used to be a stretch of road near Glencoe in Scotland that we drove along, where there was one telephone pole ever so slightly out of place - about two metres or so closer to the next than it should be. This seemed impossibly jarring.) and road signs and road markings were a high, "cymbal-y" kind of cross-rhythm. Really complex objects like electricity pylons were pretty much whole little tunes all to themselves.

Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll bore you rigid with fishing stories for the rest of your life.


But just think (2.33 / 6) (#163)
by nebbish on Wed May 19, 2004 at 06:21:19 AM EST

If it wasn't for people like you there wouldn't be any computers.

---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee

Damn (1.05 / 20) (#171)
by smg on Wed May 19, 2004 at 12:01:08 PM EST

I hate articles about crazy people. After reading this I think I'm an Assburger too. Where can I purchase accessories for the Assburger lifestyle?

Bionic cochlear implants. (2.71 / 7) (#174)
by Fen on Wed May 19, 2004 at 01:38:43 PM EST

I have that hearing problem too that noises bug me. And like any geek I'm transhumanist. The best route to transhumanism is through the brian, not altered genetics. Cochlear implants send signals directly to the auditory nerve! You can turn it off, or listen to truly personal music.
--Self.
Just get on with it.. (2.44 / 9) (#175)
by dmw on Wed May 19, 2004 at 01:39:39 PM EST

Just think, in the time you took to post this article, you could have brushed up on your social skills, joined a local team sport club, or threw out some of those books that have been making you so antisocial for all these years. ;)

I've seen quite a few articles similar to this in the recent months, and although I don't deny Asperger's Syndrome could be real, it is plain to see how easily it could be overdiagnosed in the same way that, eg. Attention Deficit Disorder was during the 90s and continues to do so.

I can relate strongly and directly to every point you made - and I have considered on a few occasions (including there now) whether I might "have" Asperger's Syndrome. But the fact of the matter is, even if I give myself a shady diagnosis, or find a doctor who is willing to do so, am I going to be any better off?

Chances are, I will spend a couple of months sitting in front of my favourite search engine, reading whatever looks relevant and bringing a nice new complex to the boil that does nothing for my life in general.

In that same time (and this is the tactic I took last year), I could have found a partner, made new friends, prevented myself from acting hermitical, and generally just got on with things.

A year on, I can say the above tactic works better than any certificate of insanity or Ritalin tablet ever would. At the very least, it helped me learn quickly (and painfully) what my real vulnerabilities actually were, and what I really needed to work on, not some random "oh my God I must be special I read lots and can't get a woman" theory put fourth by a scientific discipline that probably ranks among the top 10, in terms of least  understood by our species.

Ok, I'm ranting. Basically, what I'm trying to say is, get a grip, go get laid, dance to music that helps you forget who you are, and be a better person for it!

Sorry for making light of your article (it's one of the few on k5 at present which contains anything remotely interesting), but beyond having somewhere new to lay the blame for a life that isn't going the way you want it, I just fail to see what the issue is here.

Again, thank you for bringing some relevant thinking to K5 for a change, regardless of my views, you're one of the few who are actually keeping K5 alive.

-dw

Stupid math errors (2.80 / 5) (#177)
by dcheesi on Wed May 19, 2004 at 02:17:38 PM EST

"Especially in mathematics, I have been known to make absent-minded mistakes by doing things like 6 * 5 = 35. This would disqualify me from being an engineer or surgeon, I think."

Well I'm an engineer, and I used to do this all the time. I used to be able to complex calculus problems in my head, yet miss the answer because I added wrong somewhere else. Fortunately I countered my tendency towards stupid errors with my penchant for obssesive worry; I always triple-checked everything if I had time (and I usually did).

Nowadays I'm into programming, where the compiler finds all my stupid syntax errors...

Asperger's Syndrome in Wired (3.00 / 4) (#178)
by Mindcrym on Wed May 19, 2004 at 02:42:08 PM EST

Wired had an interesting article about Asperger's Syndrome a while back, titled The Geek Syndrome.  Also take a look at Think Different.

  -Mindcrym

Living with Asperger's syndrome? Where? (2.33 / 12) (#179)
by EdwardH on Wed May 19, 2004 at 02:58:49 PM EST

Didn't really see anything in the article about actually living with it, more than a "what is AS" explanation. So here's how I live with it.

I don't.

I like online communities. They are an enjoyable source of virtual social interaction. Unfortunately I usually end up banned from all communities I join within either days, weeks or months, depending on what I say. People don't like me so much that they'll actually make up rules just to be able to say that I broke the rules and therefore have to be banned.

It happens every time. I was recently banned from a photography site within days of joining. The reason was that I was too loud and critical of other members. What did I do? There was a person there who was outright lying, and I therefore called him a liar, presenting proof of his lies. I was banned a few hours later.

Another photography site I had joined also banned me because I was "obviously" being sarcastic all the time. In actuality I was never sarcastic without clearing using sarcasm paranthesis or irony-tags.

People's hate for me isn't limited to just the net: I get in trouble a lot in real life too.

I usually get into fights at parties, for some reason or other. The latest party I went to someone just hit me for saying that I didn't believe that the person was from London (based on my observations that the person couldn't tell me exactly where from London the person was from, nor did the person speak proper English).

Fights are common.

I've stopped going out for fear of ending up in yet another fight that leaves my face and fists bloody.

But being banned and getting into fights all the time isn't what's worst about AS: it's the fact that other people continually disappoint me.

Something normal people like to say is "I'll call you", which they never do, or "I'll see you at 15:00", which they're either very late for (>15min) or don't come at all.

People seem to like to disappoint other people, and I don't know why.

And not knowing why is what really fucks me up. It's not uncommon for me to lie awake at night and wonder what I could have said or done differently to make the person keep their promises, or to avoid getting beaten up or banned.

I like to photograph models/people. We usually meet in a park and shoot a few hundred rounds. After going home and sitting for several hours editing the pictures and then sending them over to the models, I then wait for a "thanks, great pictures" or whatever. And I wait and wait and I don't hear anything.

According to my observations of other photographers, whenever they meet one of their models they are usually full of hugs and kisses and lots of "how are you" and stuff like that. Whenever I meet one of my models, if I get anything from the model at all it's a forced smile and a quick wave "hello". After which the model quickly passes me.

I don't touch the models, I don't ask for nude shots, I don't shoot down the blouse or anything like that. I usually try to make chit-chat to make the model feel at ease and give complements on pose and expression during the shoot. "What am I doing wrong?" I wonder, lying in bed at night.

I want to believe that I was banned from those two photo sites in my examples because I was going against the stream: I wasn't in their "inner circle" (where they all pat each other on the back and tell each other how good they are, even though the pictures they take are nothing special), I didn't shut up and didn't mind telling the truth about whatever I was thinking.

I'm brutally honest. People have stopped asking me what I think about xxx and yyy because they can't handle whatever I have to say, and I say whatever I see. If I see that the picture is nothing special, I will say so.

I'm rambling.

I've been depressed for more than two years. It started because I was dumped. I was under the false impression that a relationship would continue until one of the partners died. Little did I know that it was normal behavior to dump a person because get "tired" of a person. Little did I know that I mean extremely little to the person.

That, among other things, has made me bitter. Very, very bitter. How can one trust another person ever again if one knows that one is going to be dumped, sooner or later?

But there are other things that trouble me, other than being depressed and hated by other people for reasons they won't tell me directly: it's the fact that statistically Aspies are lonely and jobless.

That's true in my case: I don't have a full-time job (I work part-time at a newspaper as a photographer and computer technician) and I haven't met any of my friends in quite a few months. It seems that they're always busy, yet somehow they have plenty of time to visit each other and go to parties together.

I don't expect I'll ever have a partner again, a full-time job or any multitude of friends.

A friend of mine which I haven't met in a while has a lung disease which results in him constantly having slime in his throat. Basically he can't run, lift heavy things, etc etc because he's always coughing. We were talking one night a few months ago and he said something that I didn't understand at the time:

"I would do anything to not have my lung disease".

I didn't understand that at the time, wondering why he would give up his pension and have to worry about getting and keeping a job and shit like that.

It didn't mean anything to me, until a few days ago when I read that Aspies generally are lonely, depressed and unemployed.

Then I thought: I would do anything, including giving up whatever piece of shit gifts of intelligence and perseverances I have just to be normal.

I've always wanted to be normal, but it's hard to consider yourself normal when one of the first things people say about you both when they think you can't hear and when you're talking to them is either: "you're weird", "you're strange" or "you're not normal".

I've given up on the being normal thing.

And that's all I have to say about that.


Oh, come on... (1.44 / 9) (#180)
by der on Wed May 19, 2004 at 03:02:07 PM EST

"I do this, I do that, I'm so special and different, I have... A SYNDROME!"

Why isn't there a "syndrome" or "disorder" for people who are really good at communicating with other people, and keeping up with social things, but completely useless when it comes to intellectual things and actually being interested in something?  (ie your average "dumb bitch")

Because these behavioral "syndromes" and "disorders" are bullshit, that's why.  I have almost all the traits you mention, and I do not have a fucking syndrome, thank you very much.  I am me, and this is how I am.

Do you really need an excuse with a pretty name for being you?


It a shape of awareness (1.75 / 4) (#191)
by limivore on Wed May 19, 2004 at 03:45:09 PM EST

I'm a tinkertoy (legos are flat squaresville) obsessive large-vocab socially awkward scifi guy coder (see www.fleen.org).
I've studied shapes of awareness extensively from my personal angle. It's one of my BIG obsessions. RAJA YOGA has much light to shed on this subject.
 Consider that autism/asperger's = "habitual state of focus". Consider an "invisible self", with a shape that follows habit, induced by environment and whatever.
Consider studying the act of doing things consciously with this "invisible body", like the act of FOCUS. It's heavy. I recommend it.
PS: Being an autistic/asperger is to live in a brightly lit phonebooth. You see clearly but not far. It's better to get over it. The world of people is great and there's a HELL of alot of other amazing stuff too. In fact, everybody suffers from a degree of habitual-focus/aspergers/whatever. It's a universal thing, only the flavor and degrees differ.
Defocus today.

My thoughts.. (1.20 / 5) (#195)
by undermyne on Wed May 19, 2004 at 04:03:39 PM EST

can be found here.

"You're an asshole. You are the greatest troll on this site." Some nullo

Repost: Write in for poll. (1.22 / 9) (#197)
by undermyne on Wed May 19, 2004 at 04:08:01 PM EST

I have poor self esteem and self-control issues and I am looking for a "syndrome" to excuse it.

"You're an asshole. You are the greatest troll on this site." Some nullo

life is hard (2.70 / 10) (#213)
by conglottenese on Wed May 19, 2004 at 05:34:14 PM EST

I think that the world is not normal, and anyone who manages to fool a certain subset of the people they run into on any given day into thinking they are normal is accomplishing some feat of great skill, honed by years of practice.

One great thing about going to a shrink and rapping your particular difficulties into the closest match of simptoms is that you can sort of breathe a sigh of relief and say "thank god, I'm not normal, just like I always thought, and I have some doctor's note to prove it.

I really wonder what percentage of the population could go to a shrink, honestly divulge their insecurities and difficulties, and not be diagnosed with some kind of disorder.

There's just a lot of aggression going on in the world and people seem to be cutting each other less and less slack, and anyone who is having trouble living the life of their dreams (everyone?) could find plenty of reasons, neurological, glandular, whatever, and all these explanations are perfectly fine and valid and may help a lot, but ulitimately don't address the real problem which is an intolerant and demanding and demeaning world that many people will not succeed in, and even those who succeed may not be happy about where they are in life.

Look at this site, a lot of people take the art of criticism to the level of ultra-violence.

We have to soothe our battered souls with some sort of explanation of why everybody doesn't just love us.

Just my particular manic-depressive ADD POV.

it's an old story (2.00 / 4) (#215)
by limivore on Wed May 19, 2004 at 06:04:07 PM EST

Cranky ugly guys who were geniuses with their hands and made beautiful things for the gods = dwarves. Check out your norse mythology. It's a kind of person that's been around for a while.
Also, I posted earlier about it being a "shape of awareness". I'm serious about that. I've made significan observations. Anybody else got experience in meditation? (samatha, vipassana, choiceless awareness, concentration, asamprajanata dyhana,...)?? Anybody else looked in this direction?

smug much? (2.00 / 11) (#216)
by Battle Troll on Wed May 19, 2004 at 06:10:29 PM EST

In contrast, I have a deficit of knowledge about today's pop stars, actors, and social gossip. This sometimes makes it hard for people to have interesting conversations with me.

You don't have to have Asperger's syndrome to open a damn book. But way to imply that the neurotypicals are really superficial idiots and to congratulate yourself on not being like those losers.
--
Skarphedinn was carrying the axe with which he had killed Thrainn Sigfusson and which he called 'Battle Troll.'
Njal's Saga, ca 1280 AD

This subject keeps coming up over and over... (1.30 / 13) (#220)
by freddie on Wed May 19, 2004 at 06:21:47 PM EST

k5'ers are still virgins at age 45

k5'ers making up all sorts of illnesseses ADD/Asperger's/Autism to make up for their social shortcomings

if you got social problems, the reason is probably because most people are mean!  They are mean because the social structure is created by a pecking order based on people tooling other people.  So just make the following two deciscions:

* Take no shit from anyone
* Learn to tool like no other.  You be the mf that goes around putting everyone else down and embarrassing them

Asperger's cured!


Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein

Sounds like me (2.71 / 7) (#227)
by mrcsparker on Wed May 19, 2004 at 07:25:17 PM EST

I was born with Tourettes syndrome and I have many of the symptoms that you have described above.  I thought that I was just trying to sympathize until read about sensitivity to sounds.  Buzzing of lights, TVs, etc can sometimes drive me mad - especailly old analog TVs.  Cotton balls, nail files (and the sound of nail files) bother me also.

Really, this article was pretty hard to read because I really identify with what you have said - about social skills, language issues (I tend to go on and on about things), and obsessive interest in subjects.

Other interesting facts and experiences (2.75 / 8) (#240)
by EdwardH on Wed May 19, 2004 at 11:11:58 PM EST

From what I've read, people with AS generally had difficult births. Long complicated births, being born prematurely etc seem to be in almost every AS story, including mine. From what I've gathered, AS is brain damage. Which makes me a tard, something I'm unsure of whether it's worth being proud of...

I've met a person with an AS diagnosis: a female whom I've spoken to several times on the net. I found her to be very nice and very relaxed even though we had never met before. We chatted a while and then it was time for her to go. I didn't notice anything strange about her at all, quite unlike the next story...

I've met someone else who says that he too as AS. This person says he get irritated by sunlight, develops a rash if he's outside for too long, finds specific clothing very itchy and has difficulty with certain noises. On the IRC he will constantly tell you some useless fact or other or how he was able to read a book in xx minutes or something or other.

The only problem with this is somehow I don't believe him. I believe it all to be some form of show that he uses to be "different". All teenagers want to be different and "alternative" and I figure that this Asperger thing is his stich (sp?). I can most easily see that people don't believe in Aspergers after having met a person like this because it all seems so weird and unbelievable. It also seems unprovable, and that's the biggest problem with this AS thing: it's hard to prove things people can't see.

I've told him, on several occassions, that he's completely normal and he responds by telling me that being called normal and human is an insult. That's when I get really pissed and only goes to show that it's all just a show.

Do I have to mention he's sort of into this goth thing, too?

Oh btw: cue the "I'm tired, rambling and not fluent in English so excuse my grammar" speech.

wee~ (1.25 / 4) (#241)
by rambomon on Wed May 19, 2004 at 11:50:47 PM EST

go cognitive labels anyone up for some stereotype threats?

k5 :: more masturbation then a porno site! (1.37 / 8) (#242)
by auraslip on Wed May 19, 2004 at 11:57:33 PM EST


124
Humour (2.20 / 5) (#257)
by sergej on Thu May 20, 2004 at 04:57:10 AM EST

I'm very curious about the humour aspect. Can I read the so-called humourous writing by people with the syndrom somewhere? I didn't find any humour in this article. How about not taking yourself so god-damn serious? Have you ever thought that this could be the reason why people consider you boring?

You mention highly sarcastic humour. I'd say that's a mild form of hate. Do you really think critisizing others is supposed to be funny?


The hearing thing. (1.16 / 6) (#260)
by flaw on Thu May 20, 2004 at 07:15:08 AM EST

With the high pitched noises and not being able to tell what the fuck people are saying a lot of the time. I get that too. Is it a symptom of Goddamn Nerd Loser Syndrome, or something unrelated that you just happen to be affected by?

--
ピニス, ピニス, everyone loves ピニス!
Argh. (1.53 / 13) (#268)
by Magnetic North on Thu May 20, 2004 at 09:20:51 AM EST

I'm so fed up with this fucking ego game. Here's the deal: You are not special. Nobody are special. Your "syndrome" does not make you special.

Play with the cards you are dealt. Never feel sorry for yourself. Don't spend endless hours reading about symptoms and imagining that you have them (belief is a powerful thing).

Blaming perceived problems on "syndromes" reinforces the belief that society is always right, and that it's people who are the problem. This is a lie perpetuated as a self defense mechanism for the system that is society.

Take Ritalin for example, an ok weekend drug for adults. How did it ever come so far that thousands upon thousands of children are force fed an amphetamine like drug from an early age? How did children manage before this wonder drug was administered? How about changing the system so that people can live with it, without being sedated with chemicals to supress symptoms from their "syndromes"?



--
<33333
Further Points (2.69 / 13) (#276)
by NeantHumain on Thu May 20, 2004 at 02:43:27 PM EST

Many posters have asserted that I as well as others with Asperger's syndrome use this condition to make ourselves feel special or to exempt our behavior. This is patent nonsense.

The goal of psychiatric syndromes and disorders is to recognize problems and unusual circumstances so that the person affected can develop strategies to work around them or minimize their effects on their daily life. I most certainly did not diagnose myself with an autistic spectrum disorder: Before I was diagnosed with this condition by professionals, I thought autism was Rainman stuff only. For a long time afterwards, I was in denial: I did not want to be associated with this awful condition!

I have tried--as everyone must--to live my life and achieve my goals in spite of the difficulties I must constantly face. I have met people who are more accepting of eccentric behavior and a bizarre sense of humor that doesn't always make very much sense--well, they'll laugh even if it's not funny because they know I'll eventually come up with something really funny. In turn, I've worked to minimize the rigidity of my behavior: I opt to allow others to make decisions for simple things like where to eat and go along with that instead of saying I don't like the food there; I can ignore annoying noises; and I try my best not to say anything that's unintentially rude (but mistakes are made).

Although I don't go around telling people I have Asperger's, I do hope people can be more accepting of a wider range of behavior. Articles like mine should begin to get that message out.


I hate my sig.


Thanks (2.00 / 4) (#277)
by Scratch o matic on Thu May 20, 2004 at 02:46:36 PM EST

This is a true statement:

I thought your article was interesting and I enjoyed reading it.

This is a sarcastic statement:

I'm glad you were able to squeeze in a political statement.

I hae always felt very sorry for people who have (none / 2) (#282)
by modmans2ndcoming on Thu May 20, 2004 at 04:02:24 PM EST

this syndrome. they KNOW they are different, and they KNOW they can do nothing about it. it is no coincidence that many vocalize their intentions to commit suicide at very young ages.

Irritating (1.70 / 17) (#291)
by axel on Thu May 20, 2004 at 05:32:58 PM EST

I find it really irritating when people have to invent some kind of syndrome as an excuse for their own personal frustrations or obsessions. It irritates me that Richard Stallman calls himself an autist -- specially considering how painful and sad it is for the _true_ autists and their families to live with that. I'm talking here about kids who never speak a single word, or hurt themselves every 10 minutes, or people with Tourette's syndrome who can't help but cursing and swearing and insulting people and then get socially excluded because of that... All you people who call yourselves aspies... you're not autists or anything... you're just middle upper class people who are good at computers and are too lazy to try other stuff or deal with things that don't do what you want... after all you don't even need to talk or smile to code C++. In other words, you're just silly nerds. Hey, that's okay. You _chose_ to be so. We all decide what we want to be. You're afraid of women? Fine. You think 'people' are stupid? Fine. Just don't make up some stupid syndrome to explain your behavior. Don't make fun of people with real mentalproblems. There's a whole world out there...

3 points from me, an asperger (2.33 / 6) (#325)
by limivore on Thu May 20, 2004 at 10:14:28 PM EST

1) I'm not calling myself an asperger to aggrandize myself.
   Sure, some people do. Some people are drama queens.
   Also, some people are such drama queens that they can't imagine any sort of self-reference that isn't for the purpose of self-aggrandizement.
   Let those people happily eat their own shit.

2) I'm using the term 'asperger' to refer to my 'personality type' because having a word for the thing is nice. I like talking to people about important stuff like the roots of my self. People I can talk to about this stuff and with whom I can relate with are a kickass golden treasure.

3) It's nice having sciences that claim to study 'mind' or 'personality' but there's the obvious catch and it rankles me. Such arrogance. Malady my stinky ass.

Those symptoms are interesting (3.00 / 6) (#344)
by davidmb on Fri May 21, 2004 at 10:04:19 AM EST

I hate the feel of cotton wool, the whining of electrical stuff, looking people in the eye etc. I spent most of my teens messing with computers. I couldn't even get close to girls! But I found out my problem...

I wasn't drinking enough! Seriously, three years of heavy drinking at uni sorted me right out. It turns out I didn't have any sort of syndrome, I was just a shy nerd. I had to learn to take the occasional social risk, no matter how terrifying it can be.

I offer this advice to anyone thinking of jumping on the bandwagon because they match x number of symptoms. Sometimes drink is the answer!
־‮־

I hate... (none / 3) (#345)
by jd on Fri May 21, 2004 at 02:22:48 PM EST

...the nonsense people feel they have to write, in order to put people with Aspergers or some similar syndrome down.

The fact is, the Autistic Spectrum exists, and Aspergers is at one end of it. Get over the denial carp, and accept that you can place points on any line.

To those with Aspergers, I would appreciate a little more help with the Asperger's project on Sourceforge, to develop toolkits to help with the identification and resolution of common Asperger problems.

I Am The Asperger King! (none / 1) (#358)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Fri May 21, 2004 at 10:21:22 PM EST

Come my people, and I will lead you to victory over those knavish pretenders to the throne -- the Bastards of Aut!

They're not very physical -- we can take 'em. I believe in you.

Unite Aspergers, and we will win the slaughter!


___
The quest for the Grail is the quest for that which is holy in all of us. Plus, I really need a place to keep my juice.
THis is absolutely offtopic but... (1.00 / 4) (#363)
by limivore on Fri May 21, 2004 at 11:44:13 PM EST

Doesn't kuroshin have the lamest icons? An upgrade is called for.

I hate white screens, they hurt my eyes. Everybody I know hates white screens. Kuroshin shouldn't have a white screen. Black is better.

We need one of those forums where you can edit your posts.

Is this the wrong place to post this? What's a better place? Why is it better?


Overdiagnosed, like ADHD, but real. (none / 3) (#375)
by astraea on Sat May 22, 2004 at 11:49:29 AM EST

There is such a thing as Asperger autism; unfortunately, our DSM-happy society has chosen to use it as a label for anyone, particularly male, who is shy and /or prefers reading and thinking to sports.

As others here have pointed out, ordinary life situations and things that are not even problems are receiving psychiatric labels; everything from drinking too much coffee to bad handwriting. The definition of normality is narrowing alarmingly.

You might check out the entry on autism at wikipedia...

Wikipedia: Autism

also, autistics.org Instead of a cure, some autistics seek opportunities to put their unique skills and perceptions to use.

graphictruth.com Issues in education and social realities, including autism.

Bluejay

Poor article. (3.00 / 8) (#377)
by malraux on Sat May 22, 2004 at 12:29:09 PM EST

Sorry, but it is. While Asberger's can be a truly difficult thing to live with, this article doesn't give a very good idea of why that is.

I've got a son who is mildly autistic (Asberger's). He has uncanny hearing, an unbelievable vocabulary, and is generally very intelligent. These are the good things.

The bad things: Monologues. Obsessive behavior. Poor social skills. Exceedingly clumsy physical behavior. These are things he was born with, and not learned, as they manifested from a very, very early age (ever have a 4 year old give you a lecture about benzene for 30 minutes?)

His hands are constantly chapped and bloody from the washing. He's got a spot on his lip that he picks all the time, such that he has blood on his fingers. Yet the slightest externally caused pain overcomes him. Listening to him talk is impossible at times due to the repetitive phrases. "um" is a big one with him... 8-9 in a row, every 4 or 5 regular words. He also repeats himself so often that 5 minutes into his sentence (yes, singular) listeners have no idea what he's trying to say. He's extremely literal, incapable of lying, and unable to detect social cues that should govern his behavior. An example of this would be walking into a room where a conversation is already in progress, and launching into a monologue about a new video game. Yes, normal kids do that too, but not as pathologically and untrainably as this one does. He has a terrible time picking up on facial cues (mainly because he finds it difficult to look a person in the face) and a worse time figuring out why people are suddenly mad or irritated with him. He's 10 now, and he's just learned how to work a swing. He also (sometimes) moves his arms when he runs. He can't ride a bike yet either. Is he just a couch potato? No. He was in karate class for 2 years; it didn't help one bit. He walked early and had extremely high fine motor skills for his age when he was 3, mainly from sheer dint of concentration.

While his intelligence and ability to obsessively concentrate will put him in good stead later on in life, his ability to interact socially will become severely flawed without aggressive actions on our parts as parents now. We need to teach him about eye contact (the kid won't look at anyone while he's talking... he paces and looks at the floor)... we need to teach him about holding a conversation instead of a monologue... we need to teach him all the little things that most people learn subconciously. He doesn't have the ability to learn these things subconsciously, and given free reign he may never do so. Because he's smart, he will undoubtedly be able to train himself later on, but by then the social damage is done.

Because these social interactions are a necessary part of living a full life, he could become severely constrained in his interactions later on without them. Job interviews, networking (no, not the kind that happens on a wire), finding friends, and so on will be (and in some cases already are) as difficult for him as learning to read is for your average 2 year old.

The people here dismissing Asberger's as some sort of whiny attempt at self-aggrandizement are missing the point. It's not that plenty of people who aren't autistic don't have these behaviors as well, it's that autism prevents sufferers from overcoming their inabilities without extreme intervention in some cases. While my son is improving, it's taking persistent, dedicated effort on our part to help him overcome these issues. Recognizing that there is something different intrinsically has helped us work out methods of "training" him socially that simply aren't required with "normal" children. What you (the general you) may take for granted just doesn't happen for my son, while other things he does easily you couldn't do in a million years. It can be a difficult mix to live with, and very hard to understand if you haven't been exposed to it.



Regards,
-scott

Administrator of zIWETHEY forums
well let's see the art then (nt) (none / 0) (#378)
by The Terrorists on Sat May 22, 2004 at 01:05:17 PM EST


Watch your mouth, pigfucker. -- Rusty Foster

Bad Diagnoses (none / 1) (#387)
by mburns on Sat May 22, 2004 at 06:28:18 PM EST

I think that there are multiple problems with a differential diagnosis of Asperger's as discussed here.

Asperger's should not be compared to autism, since autism is now seen to result from a severe molecular defect in synapse structure.  If Asperger's really exists, it would consist of a neurological deficit in empathy and sensing social ques; stereotyped obsessions must be redemonstrated as part of the syndrome after more rigorous diagnosis.

The article, Misdiagnosis of the Gifted, identifies a severe and continuing problem:

  • the sensitivity and intensity which is the essence of giftedness is universally misdiagnosed as some pathology or another;
  • the essence of ADHD is now known to be physical uninhibition when distracted; ADD may not be a legitimate category;
  • giftedness mainly entails intense empathy; communication is unimpaired with the equally gifted;
  • anxiety and mood disorders are distiguished by their stereotypy, less apt stickiness, and lesser quality;
  • giftedness is the opposite of addiction, only the intensity is the same; there is a high quality combination of persistence and opportunism.

Michael J. Burns "Signs and wonders of this sort they conjure up perpetually, till one might think Nature as mad as themselves
Christ on a bike... (none / 2) (#390)
by hundredweight on Sat May 22, 2004 at 08:59:59 PM EST

Swear to god, can we please cut out the paranoid, self-aggrandising posts - from aspies and nerds alike - whining that 'mainstream society' puts labels on people who 'don't like sports or pop music', with the implication that they're oh so fucking superior because they get their kicks from C++ rather than Justin Timberlake.

Whether you've got Aspergers or not (and I don't dispute that AS is real), as long as you keep up the attitude that you are superior and enlightened and that people who don't share your exact interests are mindless automatons incapable of being worthwhile or intelligent, you're going to continue to be ostracised and/or have the shit kicked out of you. I've seen it a million times, geeks who deal with being made fun of by a few kids at school by rationalising (and then carrying the attitude into later life) that they are the lone wolf in a sea of pithy, sycophantic idiots incapable of any substantial thought. Of course, they don't acknowledge that most of the kids who universally get the best marks (I say universally because I know plenty of geeks who can't handle liberal arts subjects and thus sneer at those who can), who dominate socially and in extracurricular activities aren't all wearing clothes from Sears, pocket protectors and playing Dungeons and Dragons. That most of the kids going off to Oxford and Cambridge or Harvard and Yale are incredibly bright and dynamic but otherwise perfectly normal.

And, yeah, for the record, I consider myself one of those.

fsck mainstream psychology :) (none / 1) (#416)
by jbridge21 on Mon May 24, 2004 at 09:10:06 PM EST

congratulations, you won the broken 2nd circuit input functionality lottery! you may now proceed to step B, using your powers of noticing odd things and illogical perseverance to develop sixth circuit (or seventh in RAW's book) functionality. from there you can get all the other things you'll need. for details go find yourself a copy of "Prometheus Rising" or contact me privately.

Thank you! (none / 0) (#438)
by islenskr on Wed Jul 21, 2004 at 10:30:31 AM EST

I am currently writing my MA dissertation for a degree in German Literary Translation. Half of the diss is a translation and the other half is a commentary to it. The piece I've chosen to translate has been written by a German autist, so naturally, I'm doing research into autism and language development. I find this all massively interesting, but for one thing. In my bookish travels, as it were, I've come across two distinct perceptions/perspectives of autism: that on the part of the scientist and that on the part of the autist. While both have their points, it seems to me that the scientists, with their fancy theories, would do well to stop treating autists as some lab rat and start treating them as human beings. Did none of them ever think to ASK the autist what he means/thinks/feels? It's amazing what they might learn! I wanted to thank you, NeantHumain, for your story. The more I read up on autism, the more I"m inclined to depend on those texts the autists have written, rather than the scientists. I would be very interested to ask you a few other questions about sound/speech/music, if you would be willing! :)

Living with Asperger's Syndrome | 443 comments (386 topical, 57 editorial, 5 hidden)
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