|
I'm glad to see that localroger has written a novel and, based on his writing here, I'll certainly have a look at this (probably from the office). I'm equally glad that you're hosting this here -- it may be a route to an alternate method of publishing or getting start-ups published. Perhaps you can turn this into something much bigger (although scaling and duplication could cause overload and even kill the concept).
If I like the book, I'd be happy to send in a buck or two, but not through PayPal: see http://www.paypalwarning.com.
Authors' royalties are rarely 10% of the suggested retail price, and most paperback novels (around 90K words) run about $7.99 right now. Nothing against localroger wanting some money for his efforts, but $5/book royalty and a $15 publishing charge is a bit steep, especially when you consider the production cost is around $6.
By publishing on-line with a GPD-like license, you and localroger may have terminated the possibility of publishing this through normal publishers, who generally demand full copyright rights since they take on full legal liability by publishing a work, something this site (and The Other Site) is well aware of. $cientology, anyone?
Did localroger approach any of the mainstream publishers? Random House or their subsidiaries like Del Rey and Fawcett Crest? Harper Collins? Penguin Books? What about Golden Pillar (or any other self-publisher besides XLibris?)? If not, why not?
I like the idea, but I think the implementation needs some work.
woof. "The line between genius and stupidity is very fine indeed, but you're so far away from the line that it doesn't matter." -- Publication options by localroger, 01/12/2003 04:35:25 PM EST (5.00 / 1) whats wrong with using paypal for a donation? by autopr0n, 01/12/2003 04:37:49 PM EST (none / 0) Paypal by localroger, 01/12/2003 04:50:46 PM EST (none / 0)
Why no fiction section on K5!?
[autopr0n] got pr0n?
autopr0n.com is a categorically searchable database of porn links, updated every day (or so). no popups!
|
|
- Because by jabber, 01/12/2003 05:31:27 PM EST (none / 0)
How about printing my own? (3.00 / 1) (#12)
by Kyle on Sun Jan 12, 2003 at 04:40:31 PM EST
|
|
|
I haven't looked at the book or the license, so I expect "RTFM" may be my answer.
From the brief description in the story, it sounds as if I'm allowed to print my own copy. Is there any plan to make the book available in a printer-friendly format (TeX, PS, or something)? If not, would there be a problem with someone else producing the book in that format and distributing it?
Thanks!
|
|
- Problems by floydian, 01/13/2003 07:21:41 PM EST (5.00 / 1)
Now with all that awaiting you, why are you still reading this?
Nope.
--
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit, I.
|
|
- Um... by rusty, 01/12/2003 07:58:51 PM EST (4.00 / 1)
- Good point by Platy, 01/13/2003 08:14:20 AM EST (none / 0)
|
I have little interest in paying $20 for a dead tree edition, but I'd have a lot of interest in paying $5 for a version I can read on a Palm device.
(That's not just blowing smoke...I regularly pay to read SF&F magazine on my Clie.)
(I am presuming that "converting to a Palm DOC file counts as a modification.)
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
|
|
|
Just so no one duplicates my work while it's in progress, I am announcing now that I am saving all chapters into a single file and will then convert it to PDF, for easier printing. I'll host it on my server.
If such already exists (even a single document with all chapters), please let me know to save me time.
|
|
maybe I'll read it someday... (4.00 / 1) (#36)
by pb on Sun Jan 12, 2003 at 06:45:47 PM EST
|
|
|
First, could you put all the files in an archive to make it easier to download? I tried just using wget, but kuro5hin doesn't seem to like that very much.
Second, would you mind terribly if I convert the HTML version to text for reading purposes? I suppose I could just copy-and-paste it from the web browser too, if that didn't seem to be forbidden by the license. (or is my web browser violating that as well?)
Good luck!
---
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall
|
|
I love fiction about SIAI (super-intelligent AI), uploading and so on, can't wait to read it all!
|
|
|
I started reading it just a little to see if it was any good. I can't stop :) I would buy a copy but there's no way I can wait that long, so i'll just paypal. This is a really excellent book Roger!
funny line:
"Excellent. I am dispatching some more copies, then, to start the explaining."
|
|
Good story... so far. (I am only on Chapter 1) Very intriguing and captivating.
I enjoy Roger's work in general.
+1 FP simply because rusty posted it and is hosting the book. Furthermore, the read is free -- with a tip jar.. which is totally cool.
Otherwise, I'd have agreed with the buy an ad guys.
Never the less.. captivating and interesting read. (And I do not read that often! Something has to capture me! Like roger's previous works have...) Good work, localroger et Rusty.
I was going to end there, but, I think I will continue just for a minute.. I enjoy a few aspects of your decision, rusty, and respect where you are going with this.
1) Hosting novels.. short stories.. books.. is smart. Many people have created such beasts.. but have nowhere to publish them. Most *never* see the light of day. This is a good community decision. And, should promote site traffic in general.. therefore serving also as a good business decision.. which in turn supports the community.
2) One thing you should do, is throw text-ads on each book/novel/story.. one per chapter. And, enjoy the benefits as well. Everyone reads the text ads.. and we all click when interested. Furthermore, they are not bothersome.. and more than that, text-ads seem to throw attention to what our *community* want to show others within our *community*.
2a) Consider ad posting categorical decisions.. want to post on stories? want to post in a particular sections..? etc...
3) Tip Jar is smart. I enjoy the book enough, so far, to throw money to the author just for producing a fine work of art.
4) Get enough novels posted from our community.. and put it on hardback.. (personal work of art section?) using the funds from a sep. fund allocation dedicated to publishing the material.. from each book.. story.. novel, etc.. Tip Jar should go directly to the author for the fine work.
5) You can figure out the rest..... :)
My sites, at their peak, earned nearly 3m page views every month.. I enjoyed the work.. and continue to enjoy giving advice.. so, please don't take me lightly.. you are going in a good direction here.. for the community et al.
good work ya'll.. peace..
~
The money is in the treatment, not the cure.
|
|
- Ads? by cpt kangarooski, 01/13/2003 02:31:22 AM EST (4.00 / 1)
- heh by vile, 01/13/2003 08:56:46 AM EST (none / 0)
- Additionally by vile, 01/13/2003 09:03:34 AM EST (none / 0)
- Ads by cpt kangarooski, 01/14/2003 03:08:50 AM EST (none / 0)
- True by vile, 01/14/2003 09:29:51 AM EST (none / 0)
- Additionally by vile, 01/14/2003 09:34:23 AM EST (none / 0)
|
Not directly related to the novel, but this fits the conversations going on here:
To all who want a fiction section, Rusty has started a non-profit organization with the goal of funding more than just K5. Has anyone considered making their own fiction site and requesting aid from the non-profit corp (can't remember what it's called right now)?
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
|
|
Well, I just finished reading it, in about 2 hours, and all I can say is "DAMN", that was good. Localroger, you rock
--
It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds."
Samuel Adams
|
|
Shameless self-promotion (5.00 / 1) (#54)
by Skwirl on Sun Jan 12, 2003 at 10:34:13 PM EST
|
|
|
So, would it be improper for me to use this thread as an excuse to plug my NaNoWriMo novel? Okay, sure, I'm not as cool as localroger, but getting feedback on my writing always gives me the warm fuzzies.
Anyways, it's the tale of a young adult who invents interdimensional travel in order to find a world where his unrequited love is single.
Okay, just to stay on topic: Yes, a fiction section would rock, but all you would-be writers need to remember that self-publishing on the web will make your novel ineligible for publishers.
--
"Nothing in the world is more distasteful to a man than to take the path that leads to himself." -- Herman Hesse
|
|
"If you are under 21 years old..." (none / 0) (#55)
by PurpleBob on Sun Jan 12, 2003 at 11:06:41 PM EST
|
|
What could possibly be so offensive in the novel that localroger doesn't even want 18-21 year old people reading it? Should they go view some offensive and graphic porn instead?
|
|
- I was wondering the same thing. by ti dave, 01/12/2003 11:43:09 PM EST (none / 0)
- Obviously.. by BigZaphod, 01/12/2003 11:46:28 PM EST (4.00 / 1)
- Okay... by PurpleBob, 01/13/2003 01:14:51 AM EST (none / 0)
- Reasons. by ffrinch, 01/13/2003 04:36:57 AM EST (4.50 / 2)
- Really? by greenrd, 01/13/2003 06:40:46 AM EST (none / 0)
- Not joking by rusty, 01/13/2003 11:51:53 AM EST (4.50 / 2)
- 18-21s by Baldwin atomic, 01/13/2003 06:22:42 AM EST (none / 0)
- Under 21 by localroger, 01/13/2003 07:27:20 PM EST (5.00 / 2)
I'm halfway through chapter 3. Its almost 12:30am. Good work localroger, I'm impressed - thanks.
|
|
While your characters may say what you'd like them to say, there's no excuse for your narration to sound like something from a (cheap) dirty magazine.
-----
"No man is above the law and no man is below it; nor do we ask any man's permission when we require him to obey it." -- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
- IMNSHO.... by Slackergod, 01/13/2003 02:10:07 AM EST (5.00 / 3)
As one of the assorted lurkers on kuro5hin
who rarely posts, I have to post now to say
I love this novel. It's one of the few
entertaining AND thought provoking
pieces of sci-fi I've read
in a few years, and I'm only on chapter 2.
Thanks for writing it & Thanks for letting
us read it!
For the love of the P.I.,
I already want a paper copy!
-Slackergod
|
|
- "me too" by yaksox, 01/14/2003 08:59:21 PM EST (none / 0)
First off, in order for you to realize how much I enjoyed this I need you to understand that I read very few things start to finish. This I did. It only took about 3 hours (of which I was insanely thankfull), and enjoyed all of it. It made me think a ton.
Anyhow, I hope like any work worth doing you plan on revising and updating this. It is certainly 'finished' in its current state, but at the same time nothing can really be 'finished'.
That said...
Chatper 1) I enjoyed it, nice gut-wrenching details that made me want to read the rest. Very happy here.
Chapter 2) Again, no quarrels. Differences in opinion in presentation, but my opinions are worthless since this is your work.
Chapter 3) I was (and still am) confused about Anne-Marie. I think she got herself into the ultimate high of extacy and stayed there for the rest of her life. But I'm not sure. And it seems to be a very important concept. Can you elaborate?
Chatper 4) I liked it..
Chapter 5) Very enjoyable..
Chapter 6) I liked this too..
Chapter 7) OK. Classic computer paradox scene. No problems there, but...too short. Seemed like it was rushed and forced out of you. It just didn't seem to flow like the rest of it. And the climax was too fast. I think this chapter needs to be fleshed out a bit more... Maybe a longer confrontation with PI, and more details. Possibly flashing to what PI is thinking about?
Chapter 8) I hated this chapter, but that's just me :) Personally, I'll just make up my own ending. I dunno...lots of stories end in the Adam-and-Eve scenario, and I like very few of them. I dunno...I mean, if this is how you want your story to end, then this is how it must end. The fact that I hate it doesn't mean its bad, I'm sure tons of people like it. If you like it, keep it :) I would say expand on it, but you could write an entire book about the aftermath if you would.
One final question: Why couldn't PI create all the people who still existed who were alive before the Change anew like he did to Carol and Lawrence? Why did PI only bring back those two?
Wait, I have more questions... What about the "aliens"? I understand PI had ominipotent power (from the Correlation Effect -- I thought this was a bit over-powerful, but understandable in reguards to the direction the story needed to take)...
Finally...the story has one minor contradiction. Several times PI claims nobody has died after the Change. Other times he claims people have died since then. Which is true?
Thanks for an enjoyable evening...
DranoK
Poetry is simply a convenient excuse for incoherence.
|
|
- Well... by localroger, 01/13/2003 08:02:20 AM EST (none / 0)
- Interesting... by DranoK 420, 01/13/2003 12:22:06 PM EST (none / 0)
- Heh by TheOnlyCoolTim, 01/13/2003 09:51:13 PM EST (none / 0)
This is the best work of fiction I've read in long time.
Is there another name I might recognize you under?
|
|
rationalization for using xlibris (3.50 / 2) (#65)
by adamba on Mon Jan 13, 2003 at 12:37:39 AM EST
|
|
|
localroger, you state yourself that "Vanity and Subsidy publishers are a cancer on the publishing industry". So why are you going to use one?
You also say that not spending the $500 until you have 100 orders is "a matter of principle." So spending $500 to self-publish your book violates your principles, but using a publishing method that you call a "deeply shameful and pathetic thing" is A-OK?
If you think self-publishing is bad, then don't do it. If you think it's fine to do it since you would have orders up front and just want a simple way to get some bound copies in the hands of your readers, then do that. But please skip the noble diatribe against the service when you yourself plan to use it.
- adam
|
|
- Good question by localroger, 01/13/2003 08:06:21 PM EST (none / 0)
|
So I'm not going to try and give any feedback on it. To be honest, I'm not all that big of a science fiction fan, except for the occasional Ballard or Dick piece. However, I'm reminded of a particular quote made by Ellison (of whom I'm somewhat ambivalent of, but "'Repent Harlequin!' Said the Ticktockman" was horribly amusing) that I rather liked. To wit:
"The best science fiction has always been written by children."
As a writer of science fiction, I'm fairly curious as to what your take on this quote is, and if you feel if it has any validity or if it applies to you in anyway.
Cheers
DLS
---
I am now whatever you wish me to be to excuse your awesomeness.
|
|
- Harlan Ellison by localroger, 01/13/2003 08:10:48 PM EST (none / 0)
- Ah, so. by phybre187, 01/14/2003 05:52:19 AM EST (none / 0)
The future you've mapped isn't itself very inspiring, but the concept and execution of your story certainly are. There's a lot of self-published material on the Web that is in desperate need of editing even if it isn't utter tripe; I don't know if it is a credit to you or a black mark on others that your story stands out so starkly from other Web-accessible fiction. If you'd been born a few years earlier maybe you'd have a Hugo Award and Vernor Vinge would be publishing on K5. It seems that you've achieved your old dream of becoming a science fiction author, even if it isn't your day job.
--
It's not a just, good idea; it's the law.
|
|
|
I really liked this story. I read it through in one sitting, up to this ungodly hour. If it gets to paperback, I'd love to get a couple copies and set one free in a hostel somewhere. That said, a couple things I noticed that you may want to change:
ch2: ".22-gauge rifle" -> ".22-caliber rifle"
ch7: " Moi? Dangereux? N'est-ce pas!" - the last phrase means, kindasorta, "isn't it?" Maybe you meant "C'est pas vrai!" ("No way!")
ch8: "...stars for him" -> "...stars for her"
My impudent suggestion: any flexibility on the title? Its a bit formal-sounding for the story's style.
Also, as another poster mentioned, I was a bit confused about Anne-Marie after her encounter with Caroline. I was waiting for the after-effects to be described in the story.
|
|
but I just started reading it (because of all the good reviews posted here), and found a typo in the 6th sentance.
"In the second place she once been infected with rabies"
maybe "In the second place she had once been infected with rabies"
not that I'm trying to detract from your work - no way could I ever write a 60000 word story, but I thought you may want to know about it in case you ever get this into bookstores - people are unlikely to buy a book with a typo on the first page.
back to the reading...
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Opinions not necessarily those of the author.
|
|
- proofreading by tps12, 01/13/2003 08:00:22 AM EST (none / 0)
- You'd be wrong by Rogerborg, 01/13/2003 12:37:01 PM EST (none / 0)
- well by Baldwin atomic, 01/13/2003 02:21:56 PM EST (none / 0)
*Not* messing up the Singularity (5.00 / 2) (#76)
by Yudkowsky on Mon Jan 13, 2003 at 06:40:21 AM EST
|
|
|
If you liked this novel, you may also enjoy:
http://sl4.org/
http://singinst.org/CFAI/
http://sysopmind.com/essays/funtheory.html
They are, respectively:
http://sl4.org/ - the SL4 Mailing List, which has been discussing "Seed AI Programmer Screws Up Friendliness" scenarios for years.
http://singinst.org/CFAI/ - how to avoid "Singularity Regret" if you're planning to do on purpose what the novel depicts being done accidentally. Explicitly discusses all the failures depicted in the novel, and a lot more besides. For example, the effect where a simple goal system makes a reflective deduction and locks out all further modification of the goal system is described under "external reference semantics", along with how to avoid it.
http://sysopmind.com/essays/funtheory.html - How much fun is there in the universe? What is the relation of available fun to intelligence? One necessary ingredient for ever-increasing fun, lacking in the novel, is the ability to upgrade your own intelligence over time. Ape fun such as banana-gathering rapidly becomes boring for humans, but we also have an exponentially larger fun space to play around in.
|
|
- Cool resources by localroger, 01/13/2003 08:08:44 AM EST (none / 0)
- Not to be a troll... by bugmaster, 01/13/2003 08:30:27 PM EST (none / 0)
- Well... by TheOnlyCoolTim, 01/13/2003 09:44:24 PM EST (none / 0)
- Problematic by bugmaster, 01/13/2003 10:44:07 PM EST (none / 0)
Amazing ... but no donation, thanks to PayPal (5.00 / 1) (#78)
by siener on Mon Jan 13, 2003 at 07:32:17 AM EST
|
|
|
Firstly I have to say that I really enjoyed the novel. It's very gripping - I've spent the whole morning reading it instead of working. After I finished reading it, I immediately wanted to make donation. I however soon realised that you can only use PayPal if you live in the U.S. or one of these 37 countries. I live in South Africa, so I can't use it. Isn't there maybe an alternative to PayPal that allows more countries?
|
|
|
One nit to pick, 60k isn't a novel, is it? More of a novella.
The work itself was fun to read and had a good story. Reminded me of all the Philip K. Dick I read out in Lawrence. To further compound that coincidence, I see the author has an email address at philipkdick.com.
I laud you sir.
|
|
- Novella by localroger, 01/13/2003 06:17:46 PM EST (5.00 / 2)
Excellent book. I read it, and enjoyed it (although i agree with the author that it paints far too dark a picture). As soon as I get my paypal account operating again, I'll drop something in the tip jar. Meanwhile, I'd encourage others to read it.
-- Michael Chermside
|
|
- 'too dark' by Baldwin atomic, 01/14/2003 04:53:12 AM EST (none / 0)
Great story! (4.00 / 1) (#97)
by Tau on Mon Jan 13, 2003 at 06:52:05 PM EST
|
|
|
I intend to drop a tip in the tipjar too. On one condition though: Twice (both instances quite close to each other) you make the classic error of writing "should of" instead of "should have". Now, call me a grammar nazi if you will but that particular error is nothing short of nails on chalkboard, and I know I'm not the only person who thinks that way. I had a load of other great aspects I wanted to comment on as well, but the fact that this is the only (not so great) one I can remember should at least say something ;) Fix it up for the final publishing run and you've got my money.
Anyway, yes I've downloaded the text to my system and I'll have another readthrough of it soon and mark up various other stuff. (nice to see a story that's philosophically deep yet technically accurate and intricate too)
---
WHEN THE REVOLUTION COMES WE WILL MAKE SAUSAGES OUT OF YOUR FUCKING ENTRAILS - TRASG0
|
|
- "Should of" by rusty, 01/13/2003 06:59:14 PM EST (none / 0)
- Perhaps by Tau, 01/13/2003 07:06:47 PM EST (none / 0)
- Should Of by localroger, 01/13/2003 07:16:36 PM EST (none / 0)
- 37 by p3d0, 05/17/2003 05:15:05 PM EST (none / 0)
that you can relate this story two (among a multitude of other) ways. There tends to be a common theme amongst these sorts of stories; about the standard computer scientist who goes and makes a computer that eventually evolves and takes control of the world (...or universe, in this instance) and... changing how humans percieve themselves and the universe, locking everything into an idelogically debatable utopian existence. Or, you could just say that something like The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect establishes a story that merely redefines god. Its only a play on words, but the distinction when classifying the philosophy behind these sorts of literary works is important for getting at the ideas behind them.
|
|
|
Ok, something was nagging at the back of my mind all throughout the story (which is an excellent, excellent story by the way), and I finally figured out what it was.
Localroger, did you ever finish System Shock 2 ? Just curious :-)
>|<*:=
|
|
You knew it, i'll do it -- a type-o (5.00 / 1) (#118)
by Boababa on Tue Jan 14, 2003 at 12:23:34 AM EST
|
|
|
Somewhere in the latter chapters (didn't keep track, just copied the sentence), there's an erroneous word, bold and stricken:
"They talked and talked. In Caroline's hundred and six years of life she had picked up many anecdotes a person like Fred might find amusing, and Fred ,had was trying for the first time in his life to explain to another person why he was so excited by the terror he could induce in other people."
Guess a job of creating dull documents turned me a trained proofreader.
Come on paypal, start working! Good things deserve more than accolades....
-boababa
|
|
Ray-tracing? (spoilers) (none / 0) (#126)
by warrax on Tue Jan 14, 2003 at 06:53:27 AM EST
|
|
|
I enjoyed reading TMoPI immensely, but something struck me as very odd about the bit about ray-tracing (from which Lawrence gleaned that they were indeed in the "real world"(*)).
As I understood it, the P.I. did in fact create physical matter for people to inhabit, but why would it need to simulate light then? Of course, I also find the idea that a human mind could accept something which was ray-traced as 'reality' (with the inherent limitations that this has), but I digress...
(*) Or just a better simulation. :)
-- "Guns don't kill people. I kill people."
|
|
- Correction by warrax, 01/14/2003 06:56:33 AM EST (none / 0)
- About Cyberspace by localroger, 01/14/2003 08:45:35 PM EST (none / 0)
- Actually by bugmaster, 01/15/2003 01:03:12 AM EST (none / 0)
|
I've been missing so much sleep reading this (I'm a slow ready, sue me!) and just finished. I think it's great, however the protagonist Caroline has the BIGGEST damn chip on her shoulder. People are just like that sometimes, but goddamn, ya think in 500+ years she coulda gotten over herself!
Also, I wanted to add that I think that PI creating a simulation a la The Matrix would have been great, and I think PI had enough control to be able to store a backup of the user's mind. With the backup stored, you could start fresh, and live out an entire lifetime (or more!) in a simulation that you didn't KNOW was a simulation. Imagine growing up as a Hobbit in The Shire (ages before any problems with sauron et al.), living a nice quaint life, and after you die, those experiences are reintegrated into your own, so you retain the memories. You could then live as an elf, for centuries, or be Gandalf! Damn, what a trip THAT would be!
If we ever get that far with SIAI and a benevolent uber-mind, I'l probably do that until the end of time or whatever... or let my mind stuff out of existence eventually.
|
|
|
Just absolutly loved it, sign me up for a copy and don't change a thing.
I found the peice on how you wrote this particularly interesting should strike a chord with quite a few coders out there, one question, do you often write in this way (ie short all consuming bursts of inspiration) or just this one novel??
spyder
|
|
sci-fi isn't really my thing, but this story calls out to me. I especially like the last chapter, I wish I was there.
"Stringy, Let's try a drumstick."
|
|
I just couldn't stop myself reading it - and I'm not a sci-fi maniac. It does come with some physical, technical and neurophysiological misinterpretations and minor abuses but it's fiction anyway. After all, the whole point of the book - at least the way I see it - is not about how the "Cyberspace" came to be but the, not so rhetorical, questions about the perplexities of such a "perfect" (??) world.
To tell you the truth, I'd find such a world a nice place to visit and see how it gets down to your mind but had it to be permanent it would be pretty much hell.
There is no Dopaminergic Pepperoni Kabal!
|
|
|
It's 1:24 AM; I just read the whole thing in one sitting.
I hope you get it printed.
|
|
- indeed by pakje, 03/05/2003 01:57:03 PM EST (none / 0)
|
...but a question:
An idea that seems to be the "moral"(if there is such a thing) of this story is one I've seen expressed many times before, paraphrased as "our mortality makes us human/makes things meaningful"
I would just like to say, simply, that I can't make heads nor tails of this idea. Can someone explain it to me?
I realize how one could say that the lives of the characters in the story were meaningless, but I don't see how simply adding death to the picture gives meaning.
Similar(if on a very different level) to Bicentennial Man(just talking about the movie here). Why does Robin Williams become human simply by running blood into his system, leading to eventual death?
looking for some enlightenment here
|
|
"A new world, as in such cases, was constructed for their physical bodies in time."
I kept being dragged back to this Asimov story as I was reading your book, I was glad to see your link to it in the Tech section. I kept thinking "How can these end the same way??". In the end they did - and didn't. I admit I like your darker fleshing out a lot better than the simplistic God-myth short story concept. It's far from a rewrite; I think that I just have so much Asimov ingrained in me that the combining of all of these bits of Asimov-Lore felt so familiar that I failed to notice that no one had done it before. It took me a long time to remember "I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream". It feels like both these stories wrapped up together, and edited by William Gibson. It's cool. I like it.
You can write.
--
Warning: On Lawn is a documented liar.
|
|
Prime Intelect as an introduction to kuro5hin.org (none / 0) (#168)
by PrinceVlad on Thu Mar 06, 2003 at 10:40:27 PM EST
|
|
A link to this story was posted on plausiblefutures.com last week. I began reading the story at work and quickly became engrossed in it. I'm still looking around the site over all but if this novel is typical I'm really going to enjoy it here.
I'm confident bordering on arrogant, my only saving grace is that I'm usually right.
|
|
- Typical? by rusty, 03/13/2003 10:12:26 PM EST (none / 0)
|
Ok, just finished ch. 8. Really Awesome, and I want to add my praise to those heaped below. I donated already, and would really really like a dead tree copy whenever it comes around.
Now I understand that the ending is ambigious intentionally, but I'd like to argue agains the comments below that posit that Caroline et all would wake up back in cyberspace. That would cause the same logical colapse that occured in 7. More likely its a pattern of rebirth, similar to budist mythology perhaps ( I think localroger said something like this somewhere in the comments, but I can't find it now ).
So we get rebirth. Great, seems like a nice fix to the whole Life requires Death problem. My only issue to this is that I cannot understand how P.I. could get to that conclusion. Rebirth means that the entity looses all memory (or most of that memory, depending on whom you ask) of their previous life. Otherwise its not so much a past life. More of a life on pause. So if they can remember anything, ever, P.I. wouldn't consider it a fix because it can't deliver "real" death.
Now lets assume that they can't ever remember past-lives if they get reborn. Given P.I.'s definition of "human", what exactly is he reproducing in the reborn child? Not a physical mind certainly. Not memories (and isn't that screwing with the psyche?). What aspects of the mind exactly could he consider to be the core of what makes a person a person?
Its for the two logical traps above that I personally think that P.I. came to the conclusion that his existance invalidated humanity's humanity. Therefore, his solution, would be to attempt to undo what he had done, as much as possible, and then cease to be. If he was hanging out in the stars somewhere as someone mentioned, he'd still be bound by law #1, meaning that he'd still probably have to act in some way.
The only hole in this is the question: Where did everybody else go? P.I. apparently had made a bunch of copy worlds before the switch to Cyberspace, and its possible he just seeded them all with people. I find it hard to imagine that he would take any action that would result in the deaths of everybody else in cyberspace. So my final theory is that he took everybody in cyberspace, and dumped them on the planets he had created before the swap, or just made enough to hold everyone, and then pulled his own plug.
But yeah, great book. Can't wait for the movie.
============
**TATDOMAW**
============
|
|
Hopefully, we'll see this soon on dead trees. Keep us posted on the project!
|
|
![[XML]](images/rssblue.gif)
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. The Rest © 2000 - Present Kuro5hin.org Inc.
See our legalese page for copyright policies. Please also read our Privacy Policy.
Kuro5hin.org is powered by Free Software, including Apache, Perl, and Linux, The Scoop Engine that runs this site is freely available, under the terms of the GPL.
Need some help? Email help@kuro5hin.org.
My heart's the long stairs.
| |
![]](images/rt_edge3.gif){kind=small}
![[P]](images/print3.gif){kind=small}
