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Bad Will Hunting

By localroger in localroger's Diary
Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 10:37:15 AM EST
Tags: (all tags)

I finally saw the movie Good Will Hunting this week, and all I can say is ...

Let me rephrase that. Good Will Hunting isn't just a bad movie like the other movie we rented, Ghost Ship, which was a perfectly linear, predictable, and instantly forgettable horror flick. Good Will Hunting was bad in that way movies only attain when they are trying so hard to be Something SpecialTM that their pretensions carry them completely into Low Earth Orbit.

Major spoilers inside, not that it matters much...


The biggest problem with Good Will Hunting is that it is a not very smart person's fantasy about what it would be like to be a really smart person. It's as if I set out to make a movie about baseball, knowing next to nothing about the game, and got half the rules wrong.

Will's talent is justified in the script by mention of a brilliant Indian mathematician who educated himself from a single Western math book and extrapolated it so thoroughly that he came to the attention of a Cambridge scholar who sent for him. But one suspects Will is a bit different from this nineteenth century Indian dude. Did the Indian dude drink beer with his South Boston buddies every night? Did he have a hobby of getting into drunken brawls? Did he regard his maths as escapism from a life of menial work which, when pressed, he claimed to find more honorable and fulfilling than a life spent in a cubicle doing "long division?"

People with Will Hunting's social background, abused children of blue-collar squalor, do not become people with Will Hunting's particular talent. There are too many distractions.

The breadth of Will Hunting's talent is also extraordinary. He is not just good at maths; he displays a complete knowledge of Harvard's history curriculum, of psychology, and by implication just about everything else. Indeed, there is not one single instance in the entire film of Will Hunting making a purely intellectual error. It is a given that he is plugged into some kind of mysterious Source which does not allow him to be wrong about anything.

Now I am widely regarded as being a pretty smart person, and I've spent my entire life listening to people tell me how smart I am. And it doesn't work that way. In fact it's pretty insulting to see it portrayed that way. (The scene where Will sneers "do you realize how easy this is for me?" in particular gave me a brief urge to smash the TV.)

It's as if I made the aforementioned baseball movie, and the gimmick is that the main character always hits a home run. Like the basketball players in Pleasantville whose shots make the basket on four rebounds even if they throw the wrong way, Our Hero simply can't help knocking it out of the park. And when he pitches, same thing, he always strikes out the batter.

Isn't the very idea already tickling your funny bone? Yuk Yuk Yuk. Those poor ordinary mortal baseball stars would just be so totally humiliated, and imagine the lengths the teams would go to to sign him! Especially if, get this, he would rather hang out at the Harvard library reading math books than play! Aren't you just ROFL thinking of how that would pan out? Especially if, being totally ignorant of baseball and baseball culture, I made up whatever baseball rules I happen to need to drive the plot?

Of course that would be a terrible movie, for the same reason that Good Will Hunting is a terrible movie. Besides the insult to all the people who have worked hard to learn the craft of baseball, purely as a movie it would have no suspense. By contrast with such unbelievably supernatural talent the character's personal problems would seem pale and secondary, as do Will Hunting's. Good Will Hunting asks us to believe that a boy who can do nobel laureate level work without working up a sweat is so uninterested in doing such work that he'd rather knock down buildings and mop floors. It simply doesn't wash. If he found it that uninteresting he wouldn't have read the books and worked on the problems in the first place, photographic memory speed-reading or none.

Outside of the smartness gimmick Good Will Hunting is basically the same story as Rocky, only less believable. It is a sign of how shallow the plot is that I forgot the girlfriend's name within five minutes of returning the DVD. Robin Williams is wasted in his role, which pivots around another scene that rings false, the catharsis triggered by Williams' repeating "It's not your fault..." as they stare at the folder containing his child abuse pics. (This scene was especially painful as it reminded me of Williams' role in Patch Adams, a movie in which Williams played the improbably smart person and which managed to do right all the things that Will Hunting does wrong.)

The morass of conveniently interlocking personal problems put me in mind of another movie that went spectacularly wrong, Pay It Forward, to the extent that I briefly wondered if Will would be allowed to survive the movie. Alas, scriptwriters-actors Affleck and Damon seem to have been too in awe of their own character to kill him off. A shame, since I'd have volunteered for the part of the hit man.

While the movie has its funny moments (most memorably "Why not work for the NSA?) it is too in awe of itself to work. The sad thing is it could have been done right. Make Will a middle class student with overprotective white-collar parents, and you could even keep the Right About Everything schtick without it seeming so unbelievably stupid. Then, the critical thing, once Will's talent is well established, the plot crisis must revolve around one thing: He has to be wrong about something. Not about those emotional things he's awkward with anyway, his central talent has to fail him, and he has to draw on those emotional things he's awkward with to save himself.

That would have worked, it would have been interesting, and it would not have been insulting to those of us who tend to score in the top half of the bell curve on standardized tests. If someone like Will really existed, his true test of character would be learning that even he can be wrong no matter how smart he is -- just as Einstein, who is conspicuously mentioned in Good Will Hunting, more or less wasted the last forty years of his life on a quixotic attempt to unify physics without using the quantum theory he despised.

Or, to return to the baseball story I'm smart enough not to make, I am smart enough to recognize the proper ending:

Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright,
The band is playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light,
And somewhere men are laughing, and little children shout;
But there is no joy in Mudville -- mighty Casey has struck out.

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Poll
Good Will Hunting
o Never Saw It 13%
o Sucked 9%
o Tried too hard 27%
o One Hanky 4%
o Three Hankies 13%
o Five Hankies 4%
o Best. Movie. Ever. 27%

Votes: 22
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o localroger's Diary


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Bad Will Hunting | 71 comments (71 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
I bet (5.00 / 4) (#1)
by Dirty Sanchez on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 10:40:18 AM EST

you're alo widely regared as being a bit full of yourself.

Good sir! (5.00 / 6) (#2)
by A Proud American on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 10:41:23 AM EST

Now I am widely regarded as being a pretty smart person, and I've spent my entire life listening to people tell me how smart I am.

I'm writing to announce that you've won the first annual Kuro5hin Asshat Award!

I, for one, welcome our new asshat overlords.

____________________________
The weak are killed and eaten...


Looking out at the world from the ivory tower... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by Hide The Hamster on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 10:47:24 AM EST

Look, the prostitutes that I rent and the vagrants I give pocket change to on the way to work tell me that I'm a pretty smart guy, but that doesn't give rise to my personal pompous cockery. Mine at least comes straight from the heart.


Free spirits are a liability.

August 8, 2004: "it certainly is" and I had engaged in a homosexual tryst.

Sorry about your childhood, but... (5.00 / 2) (#5)
by xanax on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 10:47:32 AM EST

abused children of blue-collar squalor, do not become people with Will Hunting's particular talent. There are too many distractions.

In fact, you can crawl out of that shit with your brain intact. Perhaps you just need to get over yourself first.

And for the record, the movie did suck! :)

-
Everyones kindness is the same. Everyones evil is unique.

You think you're pretty good, huh? (5.00 / 2) (#6)
by Michael Moore on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 11:02:36 AM EST

Well where's your Oscar for Best Documentary, smart guy?

--
"My life was more improved by a single use of [ecstasy] than someone's life is made worse by becoming a heroin addict." -- aphrael
What-ever (4.00 / 1) (#7)
by delmoi on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 11:06:41 AM EST

The fact that you consider yourself smart does not mean that know what it's like for every smart person. For some people math is very easy, and the history stuff... pretty much anyone with above average intelegence and a lot of time on their hands can become well versed.
--
"'argumentation' is not a word, idiot." -- thelizman
Partially agree, partially disagree (4.33 / 3) (#8)
by epepke on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 11:08:07 AM EST

I think that Good Will Hunting tried too hard, and I voted for that option. But there were some good bits.

One was the "you're just a kid" speech. Predictable, probably, but spot on.

Another was one of the things that seemed to bother you so much:

Good Will Hunting asks us to believe that a boy who can do nobel laureate level work without working up a sweat is so uninterested in doing such work that he'd rather knock down buildings and mop floors.

I'm friends with a guy whom I'll call "Scott," because that's his name. I used to drink with him before I moved. Scott is definitely a schizophrenic, albeit a high-functioning one. Now, I'm good at languages. Really good, although it takes me a lot of work. I've also studied a hell of a lot of linguistics, partly to improve my language skills, but partly also because it's fun. I can detect the nuances of other languages that English-speakers aren't supposed to be able to detect. I'm also a certified teacher of English as a Foreign Language. I'm pretty good at this stuff.

However, Scott taught himself Japanese and speaks it fluently, with as far as I can tell (and I'm good at this) no significant Gaijin accent. He works as a dishwasher at a Friendly's restaurant. I once asked him whether he had thought of using his language abilities as a profession. He said, "yeah," but he also got very agitated and wild-eyed.

Scott washes dishes. Sometimes he does yard work. He comes to a British pub but drinks Icehouse, even when Abbott Ale was cheaper. He lives with his parents. He hangs out with his homeless buddies who live in the woods. And he taught himself flawless Japanese. Breaking away from the familiar is frightening for schizophrenics.

I also think that Patch Adams sucked big, fat hairy donkey dicks. So there.


The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett


You Are An Ignorant, Yet Arrogant Bastard (4.75 / 5) (#9)
by thelizman on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 11:14:12 AM EST

People with Will Hunting's social background, abused children of blue-collar squalor, do not become people with Will Hunting's particular talent. There are too many distractions.
The hell they don't. I'll guarantee you I know half a dozen people originating from "blue collar squalor" that are definately more intelligent that you. The reason you dont see them is that they don't have the opportunity in front of them that middle and upper class inviduals do, and most often they simply accept life as a proletariat. Additionally, beloved academia has become the posterchild of celebrity and wealth, and therefore rejects any behavior incident to a common upbringing.

So last night, I'm talking with a friend of mine about applications of calculus in predicting criminal trends over a couple of Yeungleung ales (Pottsville, PA microbrewery), when the bartender pointed out a mistake I made by applying the chain rule when I should have used the quotient rule. This took him away from his philosophical discussion of taxation as a form of market control with a retired Naval Cheif Petty Officer, who was quite inebriated.

If you missed the point of GWH, it's because you're an ignorant bastard.
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
Curved tests? ROTFL! <nt> (none / 0) (#10)
by Vesperto on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 11:15:30 AM EST



If you disagree post, don't moderate.
best diary in a number of days. (none / 0) (#13)
by davedean on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 11:31:00 AM EST

okay, things I will pretend people want to discuss with me:

GWH was a decent "movie" but the script took a few bad turns. The "its not your fault" scene is too little, too late. There was almost no discussion of Will's fuckups being addressed in any meaningful sense, there was one tiny scene where he finally cries and runs off to find true love (or whatever).

Of course, this was "movie shorthand" for a few months/years of actual work and change, but almost every person I've seen this film with has been shocked they took such a quick route to the end of the film. A few extra minutes of footage would have saved that "great! I know its not my fault now, phew! I better get on with life!" smaltz-e-ness that people complain of.

As to him knowing too much from a base point of blue-collar upbringing .. people can do really well even in shit circumstances. A past girlfriend of mine grew up in travelling around the country with no real address, bandied from parent to parent, both of them poor as poor can be - and somewhere found the time/inclination to read psychology at a university level in her early teens, along with all the usual hippy-shit books foistered on her by her parents.

So, people can learn things in the weirdest upbringings. As for high-level maths problems, I have no idea how he was expected to be so good at them overnight, but considering that he solved the  year-long "hard" question in the first part of the film, I would assume that the audience is being given a hint that he studied at some point -- the fact we never see piles of books at his house means almost nothing. I've got knowledge in a number of different areas which is almost solely committed to memory after various canoodlings as a teenager.

Will's central failing, and where I identify with the character most, is his inability to use his "talent" for good, and get on with living a decent life. The film addresses these in a very poor fashion, and your suggested changes are true - if he finally had to use his emotional skills to survive for a scene or two, we would feel he had learnt something profound, and changed as a person.

There is a very hamfisted attempt to show this with him driving off into the sunset - the assumed action is that he repairs his relationship with Minnie (whose character's name I've forgotten also), hence, redemption through completeness, blah blah blah.

I would suggest that a new version, not directed by Gus Van "Oh, I'm so intellectual!!!1" Sant would be much better on this front. Gus makes shit films (sorry Gus).

-Dave
--
Dave Dean
Google loves me again! New Formula!

Wow and I thought I was arrogant! (5.00 / 2) (#14)
by StormShadow on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 11:32:31 AM EST

Not anymore after reading your diary. I did like the movie and all your whining is pathetic. Have you ever read Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde? No doubt you probably would write a 3 page diary about how the entire story is ridiculous and scientifically impossible, while still missing the point of the story.


-----------------
oderint dum metuant - Cicero
We aren't killing enough of our [America's] enemies. Re-elect Bush in 2004 - Me
12/2003: This account is now closed. Password scrambled. Its been a pleasure.


and the bites roll in... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by rmg on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 11:38:27 AM EST

good work, localroger. you are well on your way to being a true troll.

_____ intellectual tiddlywinks

Well (4.00 / 1) (#23)
by marcos on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 12:22:55 PM EST

I believe that Einstein was right, and the other people were wrong. But at the same time, I believe the quantum people arrived at a correct answer, but with the wrong belief. Their theories are not simple enough to be true.

Hot damn, Sals! (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by kill on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 12:23:37 PM EST

Looks like we got a live one. Bit jealous of the genius boy & his lovely girl, eh Rog? It's alright, you just let that bitterness vent. You feel better already.

Anyhow, great movie. Probably one of the better movies from the era.

I haven't seen the movie, (5.00 / 3) (#25)
by noogie on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 12:23:37 PM EST

but I like this diary. I bet it's crap because Affleck helped write it, and he's such a bellend. He was only good in mallrats where he was the bad guy.


*** ANONYMIZED BY THE EVIL KUROFIVEHIN MILITARY JUNTA ***
If arrogance indeed stems from insecurity good sir (4.50 / 2) (#27)
by Nigga on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 12:25:38 PM EST

you are a great example of both.

mellow out man. Jealous of a fictitious character.. jesus man it's just a movie don't take it so damn personally.

The movie isn't for smart people to identify with, but a character piece for the general masses, the fact that you don't realize this makes me question the intelligence you claim to have so much of. Being overly realistic wouldn't sell or connect in the way Good Will Hunting does. Don't look for realism look for symbolism. It's a damn fine movie when taken as a study of interpersonal relationships and social structures.

--------
The fuck happened to Nigga?

Not to mention (none / 0) (#33)
by Guybrush Threepwood on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 01:03:07 PM EST

That the maths problems are ridiculously easy. Come on, at least put something interesting like the Riemann hypothesis or the Poincaré conjecture. Any simp with a first-year college math course can work those stupid graph theory problems.

</wannabe math nerd>
-- Dont eat me. I'm a mighty pirate!

When I first watched it.... (none / 0) (#39)
by Psycho Dave on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 03:09:47 PM EST

..it was the morning after a rave. I was coming down off a five strip of acid and two hits of ecstacy and was chugging a twelve-pack of Pabst to mellow myself out. Needless to say, I bawled like a baby.

Then again, in the warped state I was in, Pearl Harbor would have looked like Citizen Kane.

This is another case (1.00 / 1) (#44)
by Kirsten on Sat Oct 04, 2003 at 06:49:11 PM EST

of a mildly smart person wishing he was as smart as Kevin Bacon.


:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Research Based Suggestions for a Happier Life
You, sir... (5.00 / 1) (#60)
by RobotSlave on Sun Oct 05, 2003 at 01:27:42 AM EST

...are in no position to be criticising fiction featuring improbable fantasies of hyper-intelligence and characters that fail to develop emotionally.

listen (none / 0) (#62)
by Battle Troll on Sun Oct 05, 2003 at 10:55:52 AM EST

You need to find some smarter friends. From the sounds of it, you have never met a genius of any sort.
--
Skarphedinn was carrying the axe with which he had killed Thrainn Sigfusson and which he called 'Battle Troll.'
Njal's Saga, ca 1280 AD
Maybe (none / 0) (#67)
by rusty on Mon Oct 06, 2003 at 12:00:14 PM EST

But it does feature the line "My boy's wicked smaht." which alone justifies the movie's existence.

____
Not the real rusty
Bad Will Hunting | 71 comments (71 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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