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Houston Police Arrest 278 People Outside Kmart

By thebabelfish in MLP
Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 10:02:32 PM EST
Tags: Freedom (all tags) 		Freedom

On Sunday, "scores of Houston police officers swarmed onto the Kmart parking lot in the 8400 block of Westheimer about 12:30 a.m. Sunday and arrested about 425 people for criminal trespassing, a misdemeanor." In a follow-up, the number of people arrested is reported as 278, lower, but still quite a few.

Apparently, the reason behind the raid was to arrest illegal drag racers. Upon getting there though and finding no drag race or racers, the captain in charge, Mark Aguirre, gave the "utterly, utterly senseless" (in the words of an officer at the scene) order to round up everyone...

The arrests were indiscriminate; everyone in the parking lot at the time of the raid was arrested without question. When asked, police said that everybody was "receiving equal treatment from the Houston Police Department"; whatever people were doing at the time didn't matter, they were simply handcuffed and arrested.

One 18-year old teen said:

We went to use the restroom at Kmart and to buy a Scrunchi, and when we came back to our car, cops were coming in [the parking lot] and they tied our hands.

Another who was arrested said all she "was doing was eating ice cream" from a restaurant that adjoined the parking lot.

Even a 10-year old girl who was having dinner with her father was seperated from her father, arrested, and sent to a juvenile detention facility.

Many parents whose children had been arrested didn't know about the arrests until Monday morning and were forced to spend the whole night worrying about their children who didn't come home that night.

"I didn't sleep all night waiting for my son to come home" said a sobbing [Soneary] Sy, a Cambodian immigrant who moved to Houston 22 years ago. "He tried to go to Kmart and as soon as he got to Kmart he was arrested."

Reading about this raid shocked me. The police came to arrest drag racers, but ended up arresting everyone at the scene. Of the 278 arrested, only 42 were cited as violating the Houston curfew of midnight-6:00 am, so why did Mark Aguirre feel the need to round up everyone there and charge them with criminal trespass? Officers involved in the arrests are also questioning Aguirre's decision:

"I couldn't believe we were being told to arrest all those kids. It was just utterly, utterly senseless," said one officer involved, who violated department policy by discussing the arrests and spoke on condition of anonymity.
"Captain Aguirre was put in charge, and it went to hell in a handbasket," said a police supervisor who was at the scene, also violating department policy and requesting anonymity.

Apparently though, Aguirre has a history of making bad judgements in regard to department policy during his 20 years with the Houston Police Department.

The most recent was "an allegation that Aguirre used foul and threatening language to his subordinates" This "garnered the captain a written reprimand from Bradford, which was overturned by an arbitrator."

Personally, it's frightening to hear of an officer (a captain no less) who has a history of running afoul of department policy, yet still is part of the active police force.

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Poll
If you were an officer there, what would you have done when given your orders?
o Obeyed them without question. 10%
o Obeyed them, but not without questioning your captain first. 25%
o Questioned your captain. 27%
o Disobeyed them and questioned your captain. 25%
o Disobeyed them. 10%

Votes: 182
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o arrested about 425 people
o follow-up
o Houston curfew of midnight-6:00 am
o questionin g Aguirre's decision
o Also by thebabelfish

Display: Sort:
Houston Police Arrest 278 People Outside Kmart | 347 comments (306 topical, 41 editorial, 0 hidden)
Holy shit. (4.06 / 15) (#5)
by wji on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 05:58:40 PM EST

Remind me to move farther away from America.

But seriously, I don't think I need to explain that this was an arbitrary mass arrest an unconstitutional as hell.

Mind you, had they been outside a WTO meeing instead of a K-Mart I'm sure we'd be hearing about the seneseless violence of these unrestrained hordes, which the quick-thinking police action saved us all from.

In conclusion, the Powerpuff Girls are a reactionary, pseudo-feminist enterprise.

I smell lawsuit (4.18 / 11) (#9)
by n8f8 on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 06:11:26 PM EST

Not to mention false arrest charges agaisnt the police chief ordering arrests.

Sig: (This will get posted after your comments)
TIME:12:30 AM -Arrested for violateion of Curfew (2.88 / 17) (#11)
by n8f8 on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 06:17:01 PM EST

They were arrested for being in violation og the Houston curfew from midnight-6:00 am enacted to reduce gange violence. WTF were 400 kids doing hanging out at K-Mart at 12:30 AM on a Sunday morning? They should toss the parents in jail.

Sig: (This will get posted after your comments)
The Wrath of God (3.55 / 9) (#18)
by greyrat on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 06:30:48 PM EST

Yes. I'm in an odd mood.

For here:

Aguirre rules with a reign of terror. He stalks about the raft with a curious lopsided gait, as if one of his knees will not bend. There is madness in his eyes. When he overhears one of the men whispering of plans to escape, he cuts off his head so swiftly that the dead head finishes the sentence it was speaking. Death occurs mostly offscreen in the film, or swiftly and silently, as arrows fly softly out of the jungle and into the necks and backs of the men. The film's final images, among the most memorable I have ever seen, are of Aguirre alone on his raft, surrounded by corpses and by hundreds of chattering little monkeys, still planning his new empire.

~ ~ ~
Did I actually read the article? No. No I didn't.
"Watch out for me nobbystyles, Gromit!"
Great. Yet again, there's nowhere to meet up. (4.05 / 17) (#30)
by Perianwyr on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 07:09:38 PM EST

"Hundreds of young people gather in the parking lots of the Kmart and adjacent Sonic on weekend nights.

Those businesses and others in the area, as well as nearby residents, have in the past complained about the noise and litter, police said.

Police were interested in the spot's role as a race staging area, where young drivers admire one another's vehicles, then go to other nearby locations to race, said one of the supervisors."

OK, great. Another affirmation of the fact that kids have nowhere to get together- and they get punished when they try. Since the actual amount of public space in this country is diminishing by the day, the kids are going to meet up on *someone's* property at some point.

The irrationality of this raid simply underscores the silliness of the entire situation.

Curfews are fun. (4.61 / 18) (#31)
by djmann88 on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 07:09:48 PM EST

Remember, boys and girls, children have no rights, thats why we can have curfews.

The entire point is to dehumanise youth. Afterall they dont have the capacity to make good decisions like "us" adults, therefore they must be diminished.

It is rather amusing that many of the comments blame parents for the kids violating curfew, rather than asking why a curfew should exist.

In South Africa after apartheid, when around 80% of prisoners were released (because they were political prisoners, and then over half were arrested for crimes within 18months, nelson mandela had this to say:"What do you expect, they have been treated as children their entire lives." I think this says more about the treatment of children than of black South africaners.

cry me a river (1.86 / 22) (#32)
by fhotg on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 07:17:09 PM EST

hanging out on a private property parking lot and obviously not buying enough to make the owner happy. What do you expect ? This is America and you should be thankful, because in other places people are shot for such behavior.
~~~
Gitarren für die Mädchen -- Champagner für die Jungs
hehe (4.80 / 10) (#44)
by Matt Oneiros on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 08:46:57 PM EST

it'll be so damn funny when all the false arrest charges and other assorted lawsuits come through.

Here's something people need to remember, this is something that really applies to all these folks: If you are not guilty, do not plead guilty.

It really depresses me to see that a lot of people plead guilty just for the convenience of it. It really goes to show that if you're conditioned into subservience all your life the overlords can do anything they please.

Also it pays to note, if you're being arrested for crimes you didn't commit don't resist even if you aren't guilty of what they arrest you for they can still charge you with resisting arrest. Of course I tell you all that for your own good, but if they come for me for something I didn't do then I'm running and fighting for as long as necessary. Your own decision really.

Or in other words... Don't knuckle under to the man, man.

Lobstery is not real
signed the cow
when stating that life is merely an illusion
and that what you love is all that's real

Next Sunday - Kmart Parking lot! (4.25 / 8) (#48)
by baniak on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 08:57:47 PM EST

Be there, or be square!!!

I'm interested to see what kind of crowd shows up next weekend, and if they'll be beligerent, or cooperative...

it'll be like the 60's man!

Houston Chronicle and opinions (4.57 / 7) (#49)
by j harper on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 09:00:15 PM EST

1) The Houston Chronicle, in my experience, has a habit of turning a fire on the Fourth of July into a terrorist attack. No, not that extreme, but they're big on large headlines that portray dire events. Take everything in those two pieces with a bag of salt. Note the number of quotes by "innocent" people talking about their straight-A averages and other items intended to enrage or frighten the reader.

2) The raid itself occured, and that cannot be denied. Unfortunately, there's a big cover-up job going on there, and no one's saying what it is. The police force has no comment after a blunder like that, except to have one officer say it was a really bad thing and leak really bad things about the officer in charge? I'm suspicious.

3) 278 arrests and only 42 citations? Someone lost their cool, I think. It is entirely possible that the police got misled about where the racing would take place, the officer in charge got pissed off as he is (according to a leak) wont to do, and started making crazy orders.

I think we need more information about all of this, though that does not change the fact that it's disturbing.

"I have to say, the virgin Mary is pretty fucking hot." - Myriad

Practicing (3.00 / 5) (#51)
by sypher on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 09:07:12 PM EST

Implementing martial law? Hungover or agrophobic policeman?

Or did he have a coupon for a great limited number only instore deal?

Why is this not considered false imprisonment, or a violation of civil rights?

I dreamt of it once, now I fear it dreams of me
Don't leave home without your "bustcard" (4.62 / 16) (#56)
by illustro1a4 on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 09:23:41 PM EST

http://www.aclu.org/library/bustcard.html
--
Get the facts about marijuana and the true cost of prohibition.

While this may seem excessive, (1.00 / 16) (#63)
by acceleriter on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 10:31:10 PM EST

it was 12:30 AM, the store wasn't open, and everyone in that parking lot was tresspassing.

Rave (1.50 / 10) (#66)
by godix on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 10:47:04 PM EST

I know police around the nation are cracking down on raves, but surely these kids could find a better place than Kmarts parking lot for theirs.....


Don't mind the plummeting noise, mojo always makes that sound after I post.
to clear some things up. (4.33 / 12) (#68)
by spoofy on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 11:08:14 PM EST

I am one of the many people who go to k-mart and hang out at night. Most of the people there are NOT kids. As to 'why' 400+ people hang out in the parking lot is quite simple. It is right in the middle of everything and HUDGE. Also the manager of K-mart gave us permission to hang out. As long as we did not upset customers and not fight ..stuff like that. If your ever in houston and want to see nice cars (vipers, vettes, Supra etc..) you go to one of the 3 meet up areas. K-mart is the largest. Everyone hangs out and talks...some idoits do race but not many (weisthiemer is a really busy road). It is fairly harmless. At worst when everyone leaves there is trash everywhere. But i dont think that warrents the arrest of 300 people. Including 40+ year old men and women as well as 10 year olds. HPD is just trying to flex muscle and prove a point. Nobody should be drag racing on such a busy road and those people should be arrested. But arresting a large group of car fans because they are all in one place at a time is lame.

follow-up from the chronicle (4.75 / 4) (#71)
by rhyax on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 11:42:35 PM EST

Here is a follow up from the chronicle, some key quotations:

"I couldn't believe we were being told to arrest all those kids. It was just utterly, utterly senseless," said one officer involved"

"That operation had been planned for weeks," one of the supervisors said. "It was not planned with the intent to arrest everyone in sight. It was to arrest drag racers."

so what (3.00 / 4) (#72)
by demi on Tue Aug 20, 2002 at 11:49:37 PM EST

In light of this controversy, I doubt any of the (misdemeanor) cases will be prosecuted. The only thing which surprises me is that Aguirre got as far along as he did, considering the logistics of arresting 250+ teenagers late at night (considering the number of personnel and vehicles needed). It doesn't appear that any of the higher-up police or city authorities are willing to take responsibility for this, much less defend it, so let's all back off our police state joy buttons, mkay?

Personally, it's frightening to hear of an officer (a captain no less) who has a history of running afoul of department policy, yet still is part of the active police force.

Hah! Didn't you ever watch any cop movies growing up, like Lethal Weapon or Dirty Harry? That's invariably a critical part of the hero's backstory.

But back to reality, city police departments are extremely political, and when you have a multi-term mayor like Lee Brown, it's not uncommon to have incompetents move up the food chain with alarming speed in order to placate friends, cronies, and key constituencies.

I said this on another board ... (4.00 / 15) (#74)
by pyramid termite on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 12:04:11 AM EST

... I'll say it here.

Our nation is inching slowly towards being a police state. People are arrested and taken to jail for drugs, for being in the wrong parking lot at the wrong time, for having a parking ticket that blew off their windshield, for having a barking dog. There is one thing you can do to stop it - if your county or city wants money for extra police, VOTE IT DOWN. If your county or city wants money for a bigger jail or a "justice center", VOTE IT DOWN. They have the resources they need to take care of the true troublemakers and violent criminals in our society - FORCE their budgets down to the point where they can do that and no more.

Local politics, especially millage elections are important. You CAN make a difference.

"I forget, in a certain way, everything I write, doubtless also, in another way, what I read." - Jacques Derrida
On K-Mart Gatherings (2.55 / 9) (#75)
by Gurney Halleck on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 12:07:07 AM EST

I used to live in NW Indiana, and we had the exact same problem in our city. Kids with fancy cars and too much free time would gather in the parking lot that my former workplace happened to share with the local K-Mart (fast food work sucks, by the way). They would leave trash everywhere (which I had to clean up in the mornings), park wherever they pleased, and would constantly harass people who attempted to park around the building or drive around their cars. They WERE NOT a bunch of innocent teens minding their own business; they were a pain in the ass who ignored our requests to leave the grounds. I still remember the day the police showed up; it was one of the funniest things I've ever seen. They surrounded the parking lot, and moved in on the gathering, and proceeded to "encourage" everybody to leave the property (as yes, they were trespassing). Nobody was arrested, however, which i suppose was a good thing. But anyhow, im rambling. My point is these were not a bunch of kids who were minding their own business, they were obviously gathered somewhere they were not supposed to be (K-Mart parking lots are for K-Mart customers, as far as i can recall) and if they were not racing at the time, they would have been later.

Any of you film buffs out there ... (4.00 / 2) (#78)
by HypoLuxa on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 12:15:08 AM EST

... find that the Captain's name, Aguirre, is terribly ironic?

--
I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons.
- Leonard Cohen
Late-night teens are trouble, almost always (1.36 / 11) (#80)
by Querx on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 12:23:47 AM EST

Whether or not the cops were technically right or wrong, any teen up and about at 12:30 AM is up to no good. Where were their parents? Did they care where their kids were? My parents would have *never* let me go anywhere after 10:00 PM without some degree of legitimacy. (exposing my naivite) I sometimes played in chess club tournaments that lasted until 12:00 or later, but that was always explainable and my parents understood that serious chess games sometimes took long hours the complete. And I was not 16 years old at the time anyway. I had one instance where a state cop and parents had to rescue me from a flat tire (this was during a time when I-57 in Illinois had had several murders, which must have greatly alarmed my parents), but this was one of those Understandable Things.

Police Integrity (4.87 / 8) (#81)
by marx on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 12:31:07 AM EST

Personally, it's frightening to hear of an officer (a captain no less) who has a history of running afoul of department policy, yet still is part of the active police force.
You mean like basically every hero in a cop movie since the beginning of time?

Join me in the War on Torture: help eradicate torture from the world by holding torturers accountable.

on other news (4.80 / 10) (#89)
by loudici on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 12:42:15 AM EST

kenneth lay was not arrested that saturday night. the worldcom execs indicted did not spend a night in jail.
gnothi seauton
The Woodward Dream Cruise (3.50 / 2) (#104)
by Mclaren on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 02:19:47 AM EST

i live in Michigan, and about 3 miles away from where an event takes place called "The Dream Cruise." This is where millions of people, from all over the country, gather on about a 20 mile road (although about 3 miles of this is actually where people watch from), and drive their old "classic cars" down Woodward road. 2 million people were estimated to be at this year's cruise, 2 million!. They should call it the "Mid-Life Crisis Cruise." It's just a bunch of men in their 40s driving these old cars down the road. their wives get all dolled up like they used to back when they were doing the same thing these kids were doing. Only the did it with Mustangs, instead of suped up Civics. The entire downtown area shuts down for that day, you want to talk about a pain in the ass? you can't cross Woodward(keep in mind this is a major road, seperating one part of the city from the other) without waiting in a traffic jam for an hour. At least these kids were out of the way, and in a parking lot that was probobly close to to empty seeing it was so late. at the cruise people park their cars in the park and pop their hoods for people to see the engine. It's not much different from what these kids were doing, the only difference is, the police were sanctioning this one.

well come on. it's houston. (3.50 / 2) (#108)
by jeffycore on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 02:39:27 AM EST

houston is a horrible town. you couldn't pay me enough to go back there.

Curfew? WTF? (4.00 / 4) (#115)
by gordonjcp on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 04:36:57 AM EST

Am I reading this right? If you're under 18, you're not allowed out after midnight or before 6? What about people who have jobs that require them to be out later (or earlier) than that?

Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll bore you rigid with fishing stories for the rest of your life.
This is the funniest thing I've ever heard (3.33 / 3) (#120)
by This Eloquent Fool on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 05:55:23 AM EST

Consider it sick humour, but had this happened to me, I would've been laughing the whole time. Mass arrests like this show the kind of incompetency that wins Darwin Awards. man... great laugh.
We'll all speak slowly if your on something, or faster if your not.
Memorandum to the Houston police (3.66 / 3) (#121)
by Rogerborg on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 05:57:33 AM EST

The idea is to take back the night for law abiding citizens, not to take back the night from law abiding citizens.

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs

Drag racers (1.72 / 11) (#123)
by bouncing on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 07:03:56 AM EST

Frankly I'm glad. The phrase "I would rather let ten guilty men go free than convict one innocent" applies -- because HUNDREDS of illegal drag racers were arrested and will likely be convicted, at the expense of a few outliers who were certainly released. It's very likely that the Houston PD's actions saved lives.

Why do I feel so strongly? Those of you who know me would be the first to inform you that I'm very civil libertarian. But, this touches me personally. I used to live near the intersection of 104th and Wadsworth Blvd in Westminster, CO. In spite of being a generally low-crime, well to do suburban community, Westminster had a horrible "drag racing" problem due to some heavy police regulation that made it difficult to prosecute such offenders. Near my otherwise peaceful apartment complex, was a strip of shopping centers these useless pieces of human garbage would congregate. With their souped up Honda Civics and Toyota Supra's, they did everything they could to be a nuscense, including coming over to my apartment complex to urinate. The sound of combusting "nitro" was only broken by the sound of squeeling tires and smashing metal. After a minute, the police would show up but be powerless to really do anything about it, afterall it isn't really illegal to be "hanging out" in a vacant parking lot with your cars running, right? And without hard proof of any wrongdoing, they would be hard pressed to do anything but arrest people before a crash.

The Houston PD, no doubt dealing with a similar problem, decided instead to prosecute the racers based on other laws. Correct the problems (such as arresting people who aren't standing by souped up idling), but don't stop the mast arrests. Remember, these cars are not only polluting the terrible air in Houston, the people in them should also be considered pollution.

[/anger rant]

The scary part (4.80 / 5) (#137)
by Skwirl on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 08:02:49 AM EST

I'd say the scariest part of this occurance is that the police have the ability to process about 300 people on a whim. Forget about nonviolent protest, since Gandhi's most important tactic was clogging up the British prison systems until they had to change the laws. The prisons in the United States could swallow tens of thousands of active dissenters without flinching.

Ever been to a riot? Usually it's a couple hundred people milling around and egging on a dozen or fewer true criminals. There's absolutely no good reason for a city police system to be capable of processing hundreds of extraneous people in a single night.

--
"Nothing in the world is more distasteful to a man than to take the path that leads to himself." -- Herman Hesse

LoL. This happened to my mother once. (4.40 / 5) (#142)
by porkchop_d_clown on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 08:55:35 AM EST

My home town has a real "problem" with "cruisers" - kids trolling up and down the downtown, hanging out, occasionally getting into trouble. The loop they take goes from the trainstation at one end to the McDonalds at the other.

My mom pulled into MickeyD's to look for my sister just as the cops blocked the exits and busted everyone in the lot for loitering. Boy was she pissed.

I didn't stop laughing for a week.

The equal treatment rule is why they busted a 40 year old woman along with all the teenagers - can't be accused of race or age discrimination if you haul in everyone for processing. Kids were held till their parents picked them up, adults were asked to give a statement and released.

This sounds worse, though - I hadn't heard of any juveniles being detained before.


--
Remember we're talking about government forms here. They don't have to make sense, they just have to be tidy.

Why the front page of Kuro5hin? (3.71 / 7) (#146)
by Silent Chris on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 09:05:18 AM EST

Ok, I admit this story is interesting, but why did it get posted to the front page?  This isn't one of those "They were considered terrorists and their freedom was taken away!  Down with America!" typical Kuro5hin stories.  It just sounds like a [really moronic] decision/mistake by the person in charge.  There'll be a media frenzy, the responsibile officer will get the can, done deal.

We seem to be finding a lot of media terrorist conspiracies on Kuro5hin these days -- maybe it's just me.  But I don't see a link, if that is what the author was indirectly driving it.  This doesn't seem, to me anyway, to be connected with anything other than a dumb decision.

Some crooked cop does something moronic in the public light.  Everyone (even his colleagues) think he's an inbecile.  You don't think he'll be fired automatically?  What he did in the past was underhanded, but relatively quiet.  If the public doesn't get him out of office, the shame (people questioning future judgements) probably will.  

As such, it's a regular story, and should probably have never gotten the front page.

I've said it before... (3.50 / 2) (#151)
by SPYvSPY on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 09:32:09 AM EST

...and now I'll say it again:

Do *NOT*, under any circumstances, shop at KMart. I think the reasons are obvious.
------------------------------------------------

By replying to this or any other comment in this thread, you assign an equal share of all worldwide copyright in such reply to each of the other readers of this site.

Next Day coverage (5.00 / 4) (#155)
by Quar on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 09:59:30 AM EST

Here is what the Houston Chronicle had to say about this the whole thing after it happened. They also have this editorial.

Houston, the incompetent city (4.33 / 3) (#158)
by Skapare on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 10:04:38 AM EST

Sure, Houston has problems with teen gangs, drag racing, and other crimes. But for them to have laws that allow police officers to simply round up anyone who had nothing to do with any crimes at all is just plain ... not just stupidity, but total incompetency. Certainly the 2 police captains who ordered this are incompetent (measured in terms of being a good police officer, if which I personally know a few, though not in Houston). But the city itself is more to blame. The very fact they have a curfew law like this in "normal" circumstances shows that they are not capable of dealing with the problems in a proper way (e.g. investigate crimes, find the perptrators, and bring them to justice). The very fact that Kmart is even open should make it obvious that some people (adults in the case of their laws) do have the right to be out. Yet by arresting even adults who clearly went to Kmart, the police are even being stupid and incompetent in addition to the city. Where the blame lands is probably more an issue of what the laws actually say and who asked for them (e.g. if the police said they needed these laws, then clearly the police most certainly are the totally incompetent parties), but in this case it is a wide blame. The city and its political management are to blame, too, for allowing things to get out of hand, and for failing to make sure there is competency in the police department. It's a city I certainly will be avoiding for the next couple of decades.
the scary question (4.66 / 3) (#163)
by loudici on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 10:49:03 AM EST

The houston cronicles describes this as the worst thing that could have happened short of firing on the crowd.

Now am i the only one who wonders whether the officers would have obeyed if the angry aguirre had ordered them to fire?

Arresting 278 people must have taken a lot of time and a lot of men. How come none of them stood up and discussed the order.

Do they not know that 'not my fault i was just obeying' stopped working as an excuse after WWII?
gnothi seauton
Hmm.. kinda happened here... (4.75 / 4) (#164)
by honkybeast on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 10:52:43 AM EST

...in (deepest, darkest) Dorset, UK (of all places!). Our small town had 20-30 people who gathered around each night in one of the car parks - not so much a racing, but crusing around, revving engines, teens drinking etc... Generally excluding/frightening people away from wherever they were that night. Then, one day, the local police turned up with a meat wagon and a bunch of cars - and blocked everyone into the car park and managed to get most of them carted away in the van. It turns out that they were arrested, not for racing/causing a disturbance etc..., but for illegal vehicle insurance! Any mod made to the car (alloy wheels/additional spoiler/tweaked engine...) that wasn't documented on their insurance forms invalidates the insurance, and therefore their legality on the road... Quite a novel way of getting around the 'not doing anything wrong' but 'causing trouble' thing... ...still, a 10-year-old? Hmmm...

In other news (3.00 / 1) (#182)
by alb0 on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 12:46:36 PM EST

A woman in Ohip spent one week in jail for letting her children get sunburned at the County Fair.

Geez, what do you feed your policemen?

sounds like... (4.00 / 2) (#184)
by Shren on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 12:50:02 PM EST

Sounds like there's a market now for signs that say, "Police Officers on Duty, either in or out of uniform, are not permitted on these premises without a warrant or written permission from the current shift supervisor." Can anyone comment on the legality of such a sign?

why bad things happen to bad people (4.00 / 2) (#200)
by mlong on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 02:30:48 PM EST

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/metropolitan/1543600

Low justice (4.00 / 1) (#209)
by Ron Harwood on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 03:33:32 PM EST

Apparently the fates caught up with him.
BlackNova Traders - Tradewars for the web
I'm not very often in favor of lawsuits but.... (4.75 / 4) (#235)
by madgeo on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 05:52:30 PM EST

let the lawsuits begin. This is what lawsuits should be for,

cops out of control,

cops not questioning orders from some moron,

cops violating citizens rights!

I hope this Aguirre guy ends up with no possessions when they get through suing his butt off. In fact I hope he has no possessions for the rest of his stupid life.

A friend of mine refers to cops as PIGS (People In Government Service) because of similar bad experiences he had with cops.

While I feel cops have a tough job, they should always question people in their own midst that are clearly too stupid to be allowed to bear children.

Disgusting (5.00 / 2) (#247)
by strlen on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 06:36:06 PM EST

Unfortunately, happenings like that (well may be less quantity-wise), are daily in California. A small car-club decided to have a meet at an In And Out location. The club was utterly behaved: the club rules itself prohibited drag racing outside a legal track, or doing donuts in the parking lot. Yet, the police (rumoured to have monitored a message board of the club), decided to swoop, and evict us from the parking lot (with no request from the owners of IN and OUT). The cops also proceeded to give the owners of the car invalid "fix it tickets" (in California, a fix it ticket means a part is suspected to not pass a SMOG check (it doesn't necesserily have to increase polution, the manufacturer must have had passed part through a $16,000 qualification process; its veyr much possible to pass the emissions test, but fail a bureacratic visual inspection) -- often for parts which displayed labels as being qualified as emissions-laws compliant, just so that the owners of the car would have to spend 2 hours in line to pay a fine, and later spend even more time in line to be smog checked. The guise was the same, "street racing". Yet, street racing doesn't seem to have stoped.. so basically the police organized that "crackdown" (on individuals who were mostly opposedto street racing) just as a show for the public to show that they're "doing something" (often when the cops have a hard time finding their own proverbial arse).

--
[T]he strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone. - Henrik Ibsen.
Disgusting (4.75 / 4) (#248)
by strlen on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 06:36:16 PM EST

Unfortunately, happenings like that (well may be less quantity-wise), are daily in California. A small car-club decided to have a meet at an In And Out location. The club was utterly behaved: the club rules itself prohibited drag racing outside a legal track, or doing donuts in the parking lot. Yet, the police (rumoured to have monitored a message board of the club), decided to swoop, and evict us from the parking lot (with no request from the owners of IN and OUT).

The cops also proceeded to give the owners of the car invalid "fix it tickets" (in California, a fix it ticket means a part is suspected to not pass a SMOG check (it doesn't necesserily have to increase polution, the manufacturer must have had passed part through a $16,000 qualification process; its veyr much possible to pass the emissions test, but fail a bureacratic visual inspection) -- often for parts which displayed labels as being qualified as emissions-laws compliant, just so that the owners of the car would have to spend 2 hours in line to pay a fine, and later spend even more time in line to be smog checked.

The guise was the same, "street racing". Yet, street racing doesn't seem to have stoped.. so basically the police organized that "crackdown" (on individuals who were mostly opposedto street racing) just as a show for the public to show that they're "doing something" (often when the cops have a hard time finding their own proverbial arse).

--
[T]he strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone. - Henrik Ibsen.

I live in Houston (3.50 / 2) (#259)
by mrcsparker on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 08:02:32 PM EST

and I can tell you that while what the cops did was wrong, Houston has a serious problem with kids drag-racing on major streets.  It is pretty scary to be driving around on a major street and have the two dickheads next to you or behind you decide that they want to drag race - and this happens all of the time.

By the way, Houston has no zoning, which means that the KMart in question was located near a neighborhood.  Most likely the kids were sitting in their cars playing their music loud, revving up their engines, and pissing off the people who lived around the area.  This is alos alot of kids, and alot of cars - these kids will put hundreds of cars in one of those big Super KMart parking lots and work themselves up before they go out racing.

What exactly do drag racers? (nt) (4.00 / 1) (#264)
by mami on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 09:11:21 PM EST



Wow (1.00 / 9) (#269)
by bigelephant on Wed Aug 21, 2002 at 10:10:11 PM EST

Some people seem to ignore the timeframe of this. WHAT THE FUCK is a 10-year-old girl doing outside of a fucking K-MART at 12:30 AM? I completely agree with the cops. Anyone hanging out in front of a k-mart in the middle of the night should be arrested, especially if they're hanging out in groups. It's called "disturbing the peace." Some people are trying to get some fucking sleep at 12:30 am.

They did it somewhere else too! (4.66 / 3) (#287)
by pyramid termite on Thu Aug 22, 2002 at 12:55:34 AM EST

This story describes a mass bust of patrons at a hot dog stand in Houston where the police had persuaded the owners to put up no tresspassing signs and sign an agreement that people could be arrested by them for trespassing. It would seem that the police abused this.

The story also mentions that lawyers have advised that people may withdraw their guilty pleas by claiming they were made under duress.

"I forget, in a certain way, everything I write, doubtless also, in another way, what I read." - Jacques Derrida
stopping drag racing the texan way (2.00 / 1) (#303)
by loudici on Thu Aug 22, 2002 at 12:09:27 PM EST

what about burning all copies of 'the fast and the furious' and lynching the producers?
gnothi seauton
Who really knows? (2.00 / 1) (#305)
by Nandeyanen on Thu Aug 22, 2002 at 12:37:34 PM EST

There's no way to know what really happened that night. We've got a cop who is known for being irrational (and he's in charge, too), Texan kids who are known for being overly rowdy, K-Mart, which is known for being closed at 12:30am, and 248 arrests to show that the police definitely lost their cool. Aside from that, we don't know what happened. Spin this any way you'd like, it's just a sign of the times.

If they actually were able to arrest 248 people, then it's clear they sent a freaking army out there. No doubt SOME result was necessary or else our irrational cop would have mobilized a large number of people for nothing. That doesn't justify it, but for a bullheaded dumbass cop, it sounds about right. Just arrest them all.

With our current 'war' effort and 'support the leaders' attitude, you can expect more stupidity like this.

The Constitution (2.33 / 3) (#312)
by stpna5 on Thu Aug 22, 2002 at 02:39:15 PM EST

Buy a pocket-sized copy of it for your child, especially if he or she was detained overnight in a jail cell for the crime of purchasing something at a mall at the wrong time of day during the junta rule of Herr Bush. There are several amendments they ought be more conversant with than they obviously are and perhaps the republic will survive the new fascist onslaught of Ashcroft's Amerika.

Sure, they're all innocent (1.66 / 6) (#317)
by Ergo98 on Thu Aug 22, 2002 at 03:32:21 PM EST

I recall a scene in the movie "The Shawshank Redemption" where Tim Robbins' character exclaims that he's innocent, to which Morgan Freeman (or rather his character) replies "Son, in this place we're ALL innocent". Of course in that case he actually was innocent, but the observation holds true: Virtually everyone claims innocence when they've been caught. It hardly surprizes me that there are "victims" willing to cry some crocodile tears and exclaim that they were only there to pick up some spare bibles and formula to bring to starving babies when the big mean police harrassed them. Taking that and running with it makes the bleeding hearts naivety thankfully obvious for the rest of us.

Secondly, everyone is a libertarian when it isn't in their backyard: When it's a far away, with kids killing and maiming people you don't know in street races on streets that you don't drive on, destroying property values through copious amounts of unnecessary, intentional noise pollution (not to mention air pollution: Personally, and I know this'll raise the ire of the bleeding hearts, any moron found to have intentionally removed the pollution control from their car should have the car immediately seized to become the property of the state): Hey, freedom for all! Down with the police! Of course when it's your daughter that is mowed down while two Honda Civic cowboys with the amazing ability to depress a pedal with 10 lbs of force race down a city street, or it's your property values that go to hell because every night is a cacophony of l337 thrust mufflers and ridiculous low-self-esteem high power stereo systems, well then suddenly you're singing a different tune.

The reality is that this thing we call "society" requires a give and take. Personally, I think there is WAY too much give, breeding a culture of anti-social me-me-me activities. For the people unbelievably trying to compare the sound of a locomotive with a parking lot full of morons (and yes, they are the low self-esteem morons, with an amazingly higher than average probability of continuing in an exciting career in the food services industry for the rest of their lives. The "begging to be accepted" quotient is amazingly high among those who try to portray themselves as rebel leaders : They could not be further from it), realize that one fulfills a purpose of society, and is generally sanctioned, and the other is just a bunch of assholes who get their thrills by fascinating us all with their superb selection of music played on their unbelievably bad sounded car stereo systems, while amazing us with the awe inspiring roar of their 115hp 4 cylinder engines. Again, while it doesn't sound quite as l337, I'd love to see the law confiscating cars when the swamp creatures race on city streets, modify the pollution control, or when they play their stereo nice and loud with the windows open. Of course, then we'd see the article "Poor Jimmy had car confiscated when all he was trying to do was race to save a baby kitten".
Houston Police Arrest 278 People Outside Kmart | 347 comments (306 topical, 41 editorial, 0 hidden)
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