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Uberman's sleep schedule

By tes in Op-Ed
Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 11:28:52 AM EST
Tags: Culture (all tags)
Culture

Over the past month, I've managed to convert my sleep cycles to something called the Uberman's sleep schedule. The end result is that I am sleeping roughly three hours a day. How did I do it? Is it safe?


Background

The Uberman sleep schedule is a method of organizing your sleeping time to maximize your REM sleep and minimize your non-REM sleep. The goal of the sleep cycle is that you are actively in REM sleep within a couple of minutes of falling asleep and remain in that state until you awaken. I originally read about the schedule on everything2.

In essence, someone utilizing the Uberman sleep schedule is actively modifying their sleeping habits so that they can immediately jump from waking to a few minutes worth of stage 1 sleep straight to stage 5 REM sleep, as described in this discussion of sleep stages.

It is important to note that there are no studies as to the long-term physical or physiological impact of this sleep cycle. I really don't know if this cycle is causing long-term damage to myself or not, and if this concerns you, I wouldn't attempt the cycle. However, the benefits are fantastic.

The Uberman's Sleep Schedule

Sleeping Hours
The Uberman's sleep schedule revolves around forcing yourself to rely on six twenty to thirty minute naps spread throughout the day for your daily dose of sleep. I stuck to thirty minute naps, currently having them starting roughly at 2 AM, 6 AM, 10 AM, 2 PM, 6 PM, and 10 PM every day.

How & Why It Works
Over the course of a normal eight hour sleeping period, your body moves through a continuous cycle of five distinct sleep stages. Of these, stage 5 REM sleep has been found to be the part of the cycle that provides the benefits of sleep for your mind.

Essentially, the trick of the Uberman's sleep schedule is to trick your mind into entering REM sleep as soon as you drift into a sleeplike state. Unfortunately, the only real way to do this is through sleep deprivation of sorts.

Adjusting To This Schedule
Adjusting to this schedule (as you might imagine) will make you feel like you've put your body and mind through a blender for a few weeks. Here are some general tips for adjusting that I found to be greatly helpful.

  • Do the adjustment when you are in complete control of your schedule. I converted to the cycle during a three week vacation; it would have been impossible to get through a normal work day while adjusting to this cycle. I was by and large a zombie.
  • Find a large project to work on while adjusting. If you don't keep busy, you will revert to a normal sleep cycle. In my first failed attempt at switching (on vacation more than two years ago), I didn't have an ongoing project to keep me focused.
  • Use physiological "tricks" to teach your body the cycle. I found that using a dawn simulation trick worked nicely. Every time I went to lay down, I set my monitor to wait thirty-two minutes, then begin running a program that had a strobe effect along with some excessively loud music. I also used two alarm clocks, and during the day I would adjust my blinds such that the sun would start shining in my face roughly a half an hour later. These would force me to become somewhat conscious for a while, which was all I needed to keep going.
  • Days 3 to 10 are the hardest and least productive. I spent the adjustment period working on two projects, one involving programming and another involving writing. At the start of day three, I stored a backup of these projects because I knew that my thought processes were starting to become nonsensical and bizarre. For the next week, I continued to "work" on the projects, but utterly failed to make any sensible progress (interestingly enough, the fiction I wrote in this period was entertaining in a Thomas Pynchon meets The Electric Company kind of way). Don't expect to be hugely useful during the actual forced adjustment to compressed REM sleep.
  • Convert to a more nutritious diet. I've found that drinking a great deal of orange and apple juice makes the Uberman schedule easier to follow, as does eating plenty of vegetables and avoiding fatty foods like the plague.

You will discover that after day ten or so, you will automatically begin waking after about thirty minutes. Quite often, I find that when a dream ends, I just awaken automatically. Although I still use an alarm clock, I now do my 10 AM, 2 PM, and sometimes 6 PM naps at work on my breaks without an alarm and have no problem waking up from them, feeling utterly refreshed.

Benefits

The obvious first benefit is more free time. I currently clock in between two hours and fifty minutes and three hours and ten minutes of sleep per twenty four hour period. Compared to my previous sleep cycles (roughly nine hours a night), I have an incredible amount of time to do things that I wished I had time to do before I switched.

Although the first benefit is pretty much the only reason you need, I also found that switching to this cycle makes me feel generally healthier. As I noted, I started off this "experiment" by switching to a more healthy diet rich in fruits and vegetables. After my body finally adjusted to the quick batches of REM (about day eight or nine), I began to feel truly GREAT! I actually feel more energetic at this point than I did before this started.

Drawbacks

One drawback is that I hit a wall if I stay up for more than about five hours without a twenty to thirty minute nap. My concentration and energy seem to vanish in a matter of minutes and I absolutely have to go take a nap. This can create some problems in social situations, but one can somewhat shuffle the naps around to adjust for this.

Another drawback is that my appetite is substantially larger and I will often crave strange things that I don't recall craving in the past. One great example of this is grape juice; I now drink this regularly, but before I switched I don't recall ever wanting it. My speculation is that my body isn't producing enough of some chemical that it would normally produce in stages 3 and 4 deep sleep.

Other Effects

One particularly noteworthy effect (I consider it a benefit, but others might consider it a drawback) is that all of my dreams are very intense and I find myself remembering them as well, down to minute details. Personally, I don't have any difficulties handling the imagery that my dreams produce, but many people have difficulties with their dreams in a normal sleep schedule - if that is the case, Uberman is simply not for you.

Conclusion

Uberman's sleep schedule is a potentially dangerous way to increase your waking hours. Although I found success with it to this point, there still may be physical and psychological dangers that I have not yet met, and there may be grave difficulties for others attempting the cycle.

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Poll
The Uberman's sleep schedule...
o likely does irrepairable damage to the human mind 21%
o sounds like fun! 53%
o sounds like hell on earth 25%

Votes: 190
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o everything 2
o discussion of sleep stages
o five distinct sleep stages
o stage 5 REM sleep
o dawn simulation
o Thomas Pynchon
o The Electric Company
o Also by tes


Display: Sort:
Uberman's sleep schedule | 232 comments (227 topical, 5 editorial, 0 hidden)
Heaven's to Betsy (1.46 / 47) (#1)
by paxus on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 10:42:50 AM EST

Why is it people have started to believe their personal "issues" and "triumphs" are something we really need to hear about?
I mean please!

Keep it in your diary!





"...I am terrible time, the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world... " - Lord Krishna, Bhagavad Gita
Really interesting (3.33 / 12) (#2)
by innerlemming on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 10:44:09 AM EST

I would perhaps never have heard of this otherwise. I don't know that I'll ever do it, but it's something to think about.

Of course, it's not right for everyone - how many of us have jobs that we can take 30 minute naps throughout the day when needed? Okay, never mind. ;]

Didn't Kramer do this?

-----mrok!

Good story (3.93 / 16) (#9)
by Hopfrog on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 10:51:07 AM EST

You are trying out an experiment without knowing what the affects are, innit?

Well, I know that you can train yourself to wake up and sleep at particular times. So people, don't be afraid of that. Without an alarm clock, I wake up at 7:00 dot every morning during school time. It did it this way: About 2 weeks before school starts, I go to sleep at about 9, rather than the usual 11 or 12. I lye awake for a long time, but keep in mind that I want to wake up by 7:00. I also look at the clock a lot. My sleep on that first night is usually uneasy and light, but I wake up a few minutes before 7:00, usually around 6:45. The hard part is not falling asleep again. Do this for about 5 days, and you will automatically wake up by 7. Don't forget to look at the clock before you go to sleep.

The reason your dreams are intense is that they are always intense. It is just that you have more time to forget them if you go through the normal sleep cycle, and only wake up slowly.

I have also discovered that if you lounge around in bed for hours, it makes you much more tired during the day. I don't know why, I have just observed this effect on me. Wake up early, and start moving early, and you will stay active.

And as to the technique: I just might do this. I have the bad habit of working very late, or waiting up for late shows, so it would be good to compensate in some way for it. Or maybe I should just take a siesta.

Hop.

Another alternative (4.00 / 9) (#13)
by sfischer on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 10:57:42 AM EST

For my last 3 years of college, I followed a similar sleep pattern. I slept twice a day, basically 2:00-5:30 AM and PM. Now 15 years later I think I'd be much more productive if my job would allow me this type of sleep schedule.

I have adjusted to a 6:00AM to 3:00PM work schedule and often take a 1 hour nap after work. My problem is if the nap goes longer than that. Then my night sleep schedule gets messed up for 4 days or so.

-swf

How long? (3.92 / 13) (#15)
by ODiV on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 11:05:06 AM EST

Maybe I missed this in the artice, but how long have you been doing this?

--
[ odiv.net ]
Interesting... (4.44 / 9) (#17)
by BadDoggie on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 11:40:16 AM EST

I prefer 4x45-min. to 6x30-min. Edison eschewed long periods of sleep, preferring short naps, often taken in the lab.

Of course, I was never a big sleeper to begin with. Wouldn't/couldn't nap in kindergarten, In high school, I slept about two or three hours every two days; in college no more than three hours a day on average (if I passed out for six hours from intake, I wasn't gonna be sleeping again for a while). I still normally can't sleep four hours a night (maybe five, but only if alcohol is involved).

The big problem is what to do in the wee hours. TV is incredibly bad, you can't play guitar, can't listen to music while writing/coding, someone else is still sleeping in the bed, can't play pinball... It's great for students and singles (especially if the walls are thick), but as much as I don't care for sleeping, I care less for getting out of the bed she's still in. (:

woof.

Truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense.

What about sex ? (4.73 / 15) (#18)
by bob6 on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 11:41:22 AM EST

Uh, does your schedule interfere with your sexual life ? I'm plain curious about that.

Cheers.
You might (4.27 / 11) (#20)
by tiamat on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 12:10:16 PM EST

find it interesting to go talk to the local University pysch department. I'm sure they'd love to see how you do on some tests. Compare you current scores to old ones (if you have em).

It could provide for some interestnig insight into your "condition"; and more information certainly can't hurt, right?

More info (2.90 / 21) (#22)
by hardburn on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 12:23:21 PM EST

This seems to be another good article about the Uberman Sleep Secedule.

I'm thinking about trying this over the upcoming summer break, depending on if I have a job early on in the break. I am worried, though, of the possible long-term effects. If all it means is a craving for grape juice, that would be alright, but I doubt that's all there is. Google only comes up with two links for "Uberman's Sleep Schedule". Does anybody know of any research done on this subject.


----
while($story = K5::Story->new()) { $story->vote(-1) if($story->section() == $POLITICS); }


Thelonius Monk (4.45 / 11) (#23)
by wbajzek on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 12:26:44 PM EST

If the liner notes in Thelonius Monk's "Misterioso" album are to be believed, Monk would only sleep a few minutes here and there. Presumably he spent most of his life like that.

IIRC, he suffered from severe mental problems later on in his life, however, and considering that there are studies that show that sleep deprivation is really bad for you, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a large part of the cause. I would be careful about doing this for a long time.

I remember seeing something on the Discovery Channel a few years ago about some guy that had a radio telethon thing where he stayed awake for (I think) 13 days straight. He had to have lots of help to keep him awake, and he had problems with hallucinations, and although he seemed to recover fine with 24 hours of sleep afterwards, his health and sanity declined over the next 6 months, and he died.

I can't remember who he was or what show I saw this on, though.

new, revolutionary sleep methods! (2.77 / 22) (#27)
by illaqueate on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 01:06:49 PM EST

On a normal work day I wake up at 5am and by around 10pm I feel tired and I fall asleep soon thereafter. What is the secret to my incredible ability to fall asleep? I live a normal active life! That's right, people like Einstein, Aristotle, Turing, & Mozart also used this revolutionary technique. The advantages are profound: maximized wakefulness and hence long periods to keep your train of thought. Maximized awareness, & thinking ability. Best of all, each and every one of us has this amazing ability! Are you tired? Send 9.99 now to learn how you can unlock this magnificent power, enabling awesome periods of lucid wakefulness.

Polyphasic Sleep (4.50 / 8) (#35)
by watchmaker on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 01:29:17 PM EST

This is nothing new and revolutionary. I first heard it associated with Leonardo DaVinci. The periods I read about were 15 minutes every four hours. But as someone mentioned, Edison did this as well. Even Winston Churchill did something similar, sleeping in two shorter phases through the day.

The human body is fully capable of handling this type of sleep. It's how babies sleep for the first year of their lives. The downside is that, as the author says, you get regimented into a schedule. Get outside that schedule and you crash very quickly.

The upside? The author sleeps three hours a day instead of the "typical" 8.

Assume the author is 24, that's 50 years until the "average" life expectancy of 74.

3 hours * 365 days * 50 years = 54750 hours.

That's 6 years and about three months worth of functional life gained. (And I didn't even include leap years). Sign me up. I've always said that I could rule the world, but for a 26 hour day.

What about meals? (4.75 / 8) (#39)
by bluesninja on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 02:07:05 PM EST

Do you still eat three meals a day, at normal mealtimes? Or do you just eat around the clock whenever you're hungry? Did this change when you changed your sleep schedule?

Just curious.

/bluesninja

What about workouts? (4.00 / 4) (#42)
by automaton on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 02:38:53 PM EST

Do you work out/do sports? I wonder how this agrees with your body, does he take the lack of sleep lightly?

Bark at the moon! (4.20 / 5) (#47)
by zephc on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 03:01:58 PM EST

There was research done a while back (I'm too lazy to look it up) where wolves' sleeping habits were studied, and their sleep patterns consisted of many short naps. Persoanlly, I think one should sleep whenever one starts to get tired. Screw your employer... naps come first! I think people have forced themselves into so many artificial situations that we never have time for naps anymore... schedules, meetings, deadlines, all kill the chance for a good nap. I say be more like cats! Eat when you get hungry, sleep when you get tired. You will find yourself more alert in your waking times. Well, do so as much as possible (reality prevents us to reach our true potentials). Okay, I'm done *grin*

I had this kind of schedule forced on me... (4.50 / 6) (#48)
by Ron Harwood on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 03:14:53 PM EST

Once upon a time I worked for a dot-com... and I ended up with a rather odd sleep schedule. (Long story short - insomnia combined with a pager and NT4/IIS servers)

The result? Hypoglycemia symptoms... I had a voracious appetitie, and if I didn't eat regularly (every couple of hours - and I skyrocketed to 245 lbs.) I got brain busting headaches and massive mood swings.

About 3-4 months after I quit - I was back to normal... and was down to 220lbs... 2 years later... I'm back down to 180lbs...

This is me though - your mileage may vary.

BlackNova Traders - Tradewars for the web
*yawn* (3.83 / 6) (#49)
by mauftarkie on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 03:15:19 PM EST

All this talk about sleep is making me tired. I knew I shouldn't have read this article just after eating.

I find this all very facinating, though. I hope there's a followup in 6-12 months. I might be inclined to try it myself if there's no apparent lasting side effects...

--
Without you I'm one step closer to happiness without violence.
Without you I'm one step closer to innocence without consequence.


How strange.. (4.20 / 5) (#51)
by EggplantMan on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 03:18:03 PM EST

Midway through this semester I adopted a somewhat similar sleeping strategy. Because workloads were heavy, I would stay up late finishing assignments. Then I would more often than not have to get up for an 8:30 class. This constraint forced me often to just go on maybe four hours sleep a night. To make up for this, I started to take a nap halfway through the day after classes. Eventually my sleep cycle drifted to three hours with two naps throughout the day.

I noticed the same problem you have - that after a certain number of hours I would just become dead tired, and also another one - I liked to call it 'The day that never ends'. Eventually I just felt like my life was one continual day and calendar days didn't really have any meaning to me except for handing in assignments.

The only reason I could do this was because I'm in residence, but I have found it interesting to see what happens to my sleep schedule when I'm in complete control of it. I'm back on a more normal schedule now, but it was useful while it lasted.

Effects on muscle building (4.83 / 12) (#52)
by Cal Bunny on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 03:31:39 PM EST

I am curious how this effects your ability to biuld muscle, since muscle is only built and repaired when you are alseep (this is why bodybuilders sleep for 12 hours a day). Have you noticed any effects and do you have a basis for comparison?

^cb^
Safety / Evolution (4.37 / 8) (#53)
by Hobbes2100 on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 03:33:51 PM EST

Just a question:

It seems to me that given our evolutionary history, having a "full eight hours of sleep" everynight would not have been very conducive to staying alive (both in the short- and long-terms).

Something like this Uberman program seems to be more in line with how I'd expect sleep to work "in the wild". So, I guess I'd be arguing that "since this is likely how we evolved, it is probably safe". Anyone know about anything about animals [perhaps primates] in the wild and their sleeping patterns? I have a bit of psychology background (but it's mostly cognitive) but next to nothing else related to this topic.

Anyone have something worthwhile to contribute?

Regards,
Mark
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? --Iuvenalis
But who will guard the guardians themselves? -- Juvenal

Ailments (4.63 / 11) (#57)
by DarkZero on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 03:52:43 PM EST

I've heard that more sleep is required for people that are sick or require other forms of healing (cuts, pulled muscles, etc.). Have you ever encountered any problems with this during your experiment, such as cuts, pulled muscles, or colds taking extremely long periods of time to disappear? And have you ever switched back around temporarily so that a cold would go away?

Just curious, much like everyone else. Great article, by the way.

Wears on your body (4.00 / 4) (#65)
by drodver on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 04:59:26 PM EST

The periods you spend not sleeping are used for your body to do maintance. Hence the comments about effects on muscle gain. As you sleep normally at first you dream little as your body does its work. As you sleep longer as the night goes on then longer periods of time are devoted to REM sleep. It seems like you are cutting away the body's time for self repair.

After several years of this you're probably going to notice the wearing effects which this is most likely having on your body.

Body repair (4.20 / 5) (#68)
by DodgyGeezer on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 05:16:41 PM EST

I saw TV programme a while back that discussed spinal discs. Now, I'm no biologist, so I could be way off track here. It suggested that we get shorter during the day as these discs lose their volume due compression (squeezes liquid out?). They said the only way to replenish the discs is to sleep. Apparently with insufficient rest, heavy lifting can more easily result in back injury.

I've got to wonder how much sleep one's body needs to maintain it's self physically. Does this sleep schedule work for people who are very physically active?

Which is the cause? (4.50 / 4) (#70)
by scruffyMark on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 05:18:01 PM EST

I also found that switching to this cycle makes me feel generally healthier. As I noted, I started off this "experiment" by switching to a more healthy diet rich in fruits and vegetables.

So, those are two very different actions, either one of which I can imagine substantially changing the way you feel. How much of your feeling healthier do you suppose is related to the changed diet, how much to the changed schedule? Have you ever tried changing one but not the other?

I eat more or less as you describe - I don't eat meat, don't cook with a lot of fat, etc. When I'm eating out a lot, or eating someone's cooking that uses a lot of starches and fat, I know I feel much less alive after a few days, whether or not my sleep schedule changes.

prey (2.50 / 2) (#72)
by auraslip on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 05:27:27 PM EST

Just becuase man was social didn't mean he had to worry about differant things trying to kill him in the middle of the night. Including humans.
124
napping at a desk (4.00 / 1) (#73)
by scatbubba on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 05:29:09 PM EST

Do these 20 minute naps have to be full lay down, in the dark naps, or can you just put your head down on your desk? I'd love to try this, but with my pesky day job..... I could easily steal away to the library for 2 20 minute naps during the day, but will that be enough?

My sleep pattern (3.80 / 5) (#77)
by auraslip on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 05:43:34 PM EST

This isn't a comment telling you about another sleep pattern that you might want to try. My sleeping pattern is horrible. I sleep 12 hours a day. I'm not in school and I don't have a job, and I have no freinds not in school. SO I tend to stay up all night. last night I stayed up untill 630, I only woke up 30 minutes ago. I really hate it. The thing was, at the begging of last week, I was going to bed at 12 because OF a vacation that weekend, and by now I've ruined it. It used to be a lot worse when I had counter strike on my computer. I think more then anything I'm addicted to sleep. :(


124
Wasting Time (4.33 / 9) (#78)
by drivers on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 05:44:11 PM EST

Wasting Time sleeping 8 hours a day is bad enough but, how do I stop wasting my life being at work 8 hours a day? That's the real question.

Pure Pseudo-Scientific Nonsense (4.84 / 13) (#80)
by The Solitaire on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 05:47:18 PM EST

Sorry to burst people's bubble, but I find the so-called "scientific" underpinning for all this to be patently rediculous. I spent time a few years ago doing some relatively intensive study on the purposes of sleep, and the effects of deprivation. One thing that jumped out immediately was the assumption that REM sleep is the only important stage. THIS IS COMPLETELY UNTRUE. Research has consistently shown that both REM and stage 4 (also called deep sleep) are very important, and selective deprivation of either of them has consequences.

Now, I will admit, the current understanding of sleep is less than perfect. There is a general belief (possibly incorrect) that sleep is all about regeneration. One major reason for this view is that rats DIE if you sleep deprive them for approx 20 days or so (I can't remember the exact figure). As I recall, this also goes for selective deep sleep deprivation.

One more thing - this article seems to go against everything I know about circadian rhythyms. Effectively, your body has a 30-hour clock, which is reset by certain stimuli, such as light or eating. Usually the natural light/dark cycles reset this clock every 24 hours. Disrupting the clock has been associated with seriously decreased performance, as evidenced by any number of studies on shift-workers. Assuming you are managing this kind of schedule, you are likely throwing your body's natural cycles all out of whack. What that will cause, I cannot say for certain, but I doubt that it will be good.

I firmly believe that you are entitled to try out whatever experiments on yourself that you wish. But don't try to sell it to others, hiding behind a few misunderstood "scientific" facts. I recommend to anyone that wants to try this out, or any other self-experimentation, to check out the facts before jumping on the bandwagon.

I need a new sig.

Sorry... (4.85 / 7) (#81)
by smileybyte on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 05:48:21 PM EST

I couldn't resist...
http://www.dilbert.com/comics/monty/archive/monty-20020408.html

One More Thing (4.80 / 10) (#82)
by The Solitaire on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 05:50:49 PM EST

I just wanted to point out that the symptoms (increased appitite, intense dreaming) you mention are usually associated with sleep deprivation. I wouldn't be surprised if you also find yourself losing weight (despite the increased eating), and feeling generally edgy and irritable as time goes on.

I need a new sig.

Unnatural? Hmmmm.... (4.00 / 1) (#85)
by bjlhct on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 05:58:43 PM EST

Well, you can't just claim that this is unnatural and would kill you. Betcha 99% of people reading this have an unnatural sleep cycle. Go without artificial light for a month and you sleep in 2 ~3 hour segments with ~1 hour in between of something like lucid dreaming. I'd like to try that sometime, but you think an employer who lets you take naps is hard to find? Find one without artificial lights! Anyway, this might even be a way to break into a Uberman sleep cycle.

If all you're saying is really really true, then I'd try that too. But I'd like some more people, some people I know to try it first. And, I'd like to know how this turns out. Bring us another story or something in a couple months.

My personal feeling is that you'll be OK, but you gotta not let acid build up in your muscles and manage your insulin and whatnot, as you won't get it free. Be careful man, you could kill yourslef if you're not careful...but don't worry too much: you'd feel like shit for days first. (=

*
[kur0(or)5hin http://www.kuro5hin.org/intelligence] - drowning your sorrows in intellectualism

Heart Strain on Waking? (4.00 / 2) (#100)
by MUD on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 07:07:06 PM EST

This immediately made me think of something that I read a while back about siestas being linked to heart attacks. The basic idea being that the heart is placed under a lot of strain immediately after waking and so it might be wise not to increase the number of time that your body has to wake up during a 24 hour period.

I have heard little further on this though, which suggests that it hasn't been borne out by further research. Nor can I think of any way that you could assess whether you would be putting yourself at risk by following an Uberman sleep schedule.

I'll be impressed if you can keep it up (5.00 / 14) (#112)
by NoBeardPete on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 07:56:20 PM EST

When I was a sophmore in college, I had a wicked course load, and averaged ~2 hours of sleep per day for about 6 weeks. I had more or less gradually ramped down to that, so the previous month was maybe ~4 hours.

For a while it seemed like I was doing fine. I'd grab a half hour to an hour two or three times per day. I'd go into my morning class early, sit down in the empty lecture hall, and go to sleep at my seat, counting on my friends to wake me up when they go there. Eventually I could just crash on a couch in the student lounge, or even slump over next to my keyboard and expect to wake up on my own within an hour. I was getting a lot of work done, and I wasn't even very tired most of the time. After a while, I even started to feel like I had a lot more energy than I normally did. I figured everything was great.

After a while, though, I started to realize that my extra energy was fairly shallow - if I actually did anything very intensive I would quickly crash. More seriously, I could feel myself becoming more easily frustrated by increasingly smaller things, and generally becoming less well balanced.

By the end, I was really getting hit by the effects. I spend the last few days before turning in my big final project having a great deal of trouble dealing with my friends. Near the very end I started to get back physical side effects, too, including seriously decreased appetite, blury vision, and even the shakes. Fortunately I got the big project turned in before things continued to get worse, and managed to catch up on desperately needed long periods of normal sleep.

Having had many friends who have pushed themselves to great extremes because of coursework and responsibility, I think this is relatively typical. People who get into sleep schedules that involve very small amounts of sleep often manage to adjust quite well for a period of time that can last from a week to maybe as much as a year. But it takes a toll that eventually catches up. People often have an almost manic increase in energy, but usually seem to get worse at dealing with interpersonal problems. When people finally crash, it often seems to lead to at least mild depression that lasts for a while afterwards.

Perhaps you'll be able to keep this up indefinitely. However, I would encourage you to pay close attention to how your mental state may be changing. Do you get agravated at people more easily. Do things that would normally mildy irritate you become very big deals? This can be hard to notice, and takes a little bit of introspection to really be sensitive to this. You say you have more energy, but how much depth is there to that? Keep track of this kind of stuff with time.

It wouldn't suprise me if people are designed to be able to pull this kind of schedule off for limited periods of time, as an adaption to deal with extreme situations. This would certainly be consistent with somewhat increased levels of energy, perhaps even a certain degree of mania. However, it probably isn't something people are designed to be able to sustain indefinitely. However, this seems to come by way of a constant stress and adrenaline.

While having your "fight or flight" response constantly triggered on a low level may enable you to stay alert and awake a lot more, and may be able to get a lot done, it's not really healthy, and will probably catch up with you eventually.

So I would encourage you to pay close attention to how you're holding up. Please write a follow-up story, either when you kick the schedule, or after you've been sticking to it for a few more months, talking about how it's been. Especially if you're passing this off as a "how-to" type of deal, I think it would be good to tell people about how things go after a slightly more extended period of time.


Arrr, it be the infamous pirate, No Beard Pete!

I would love to try this... (3.66 / 3) (#113)
by Sunbofh on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 07:57:03 PM EST

I would love to try this out, but I think my insomnia would make it rather impossible. It takes about an hour for me to get to sleep, once I lay down. Also, I never could sleep sitting up, only laying down. This is not something related to caf. or to not working out, etc. Not sure where it comes from.

I don't think it would be possible at my work anyway. I suspect this is true for most people. The office is just bad for this type of sleep pattern.

Funny (2.16 / 6) (#114)
by paxus on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 08:07:24 PM EST

Seems people jumped on my case about my earlier comment to this article. I find that odd considering most of the other "I" (or "me" related, some people have a problem with the word personal) related stories I've seen in the past couple days were dropped into oblivion. In fact, i can't remember the last time I say an "I" story make the front page. It sure as heck is in the minority. There was a famous person who once said:

those accused of misogyny, for the most part, are those who say what other people are thinking, but don't have the guts to say

I dare not call myself a misogynist, but i stand by my earlier statement.





"...I am terrible time, the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world... " - Lord Krishna, Bhagavad Gita
Hmm (4.50 / 2) (#119)
by valeko on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 09:18:23 PM EST

It seems that a lot of this relies on the ability go to asleep immedaitely, which I do not have, even in the most tired physiological state. It takes me around 30 minutes to an hour to actually fall asleep, almost regardless of how tired I am. Of course, it will happen that if I go sleep deprived for 4 or 5 days, I will occasionally just crash and fall asleep immediately and sleep for the next 14 hours, but generally it doesn't work.


"Hey, what's sanity got going for it anyways?" -- infinitera, on matters of the heart

Since we're talking sleep... (4.50 / 2) (#121)
by BigZaphod on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 09:32:46 PM EST

I've been having a sleep problem. Maybe someone out there has run into it and found it going away or solved it or whatever.

Anyway, the basics are that I seem to have a natural sleep schedule of about 4:00am to 12:00pm or so. As you can imagine, this doesn't work with a normal job at all. However, this is the sleep pattern I fall into on the weekends and when I don't have to get up in the mornings (holidays, etc).

I'm in me senior year and only have 2 classes to go to each week. So, I work a lot and will be working full time in about 4 weeks time. My boss is currently simply "putting up" with my erratic behavior for now, but I have a feeling he won't stand for it when I'm full time (even if I do work a full 40 hours per week, he wants me there when everyone else is because we're going to start doing pair programming (as in XP) and it only makes sense, so I can't argue that logic).

So, anyway, I can never seem to get to sleep for the length of time I need it (pretty much a full 8 hours) because I can't fall asleep right away. As a result, I constantly get woke up in the middle of REM and am tired all day. Usually making stupid mistakes, not thinking clearly, etc. All day. So, not only do I have a hard time making it to work on time, I suck while I'm there!

I just can't seem to change this, either. I've tried, but it never works. It is only made harder by the fact that my friends often do things late at night (which is perfectly comfortable and natural for me). In typical fashion, I seem to be the only one who can't go to bed at midnight or so and still get up at 8:00am the next morning feeling good and refreshed. I *should* be able to, but I can't sleep soundly right off the bat and so always wake in REM feeling like crap.

Has anyone else had this sort of thing happen? Why can't my sleep pattern just settle down into something more normal/usable? *sigh*

"We're all patients, there are no doctors, our meds ran out a long time ago and nobody loves us." - skyknight
A natural state? (3.50 / 2) (#123)
by imadork on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 09:58:12 PM EST

I know that this sleep pattern is definitely not for me. I get rather irritable and cranky if I don't get eight to nine hours every night. I've found, however, that years of working in the real world can do wonders for changing your schedule. In college, I avoided 8AM and 9AM classes like the plague, but now, sleeping until 7:30 is "sleeping in" for me!

But this article did remind me of something strange in my life. I took a trip to Japan for my job last year. It was hard enough to get used to time over there - I would get up with the sunrise at about 4:30AM, because that's what I do here. By 8PM, I was really tired, but I was drinking so much I didn't care.

But even stranger was what happened when I came back- I came back on a Saturday, and had the weekend to recover from the trip and from work. With nothing that important to do, I lapsed into a similar sleep pattern to the one discussed here for a few days (I think it was that after three hours awake, my body turned itself off for an hour wherever I happened to be.) This didn't happen in Japan because we kept ourselves so busy during the day and so drunk at night...

Could it be that this is the state our bodies return to when we're not strict about what time we need to do things?

Approximately 50% of us are below average..

Power-naps (4.50 / 2) (#132)
by Souhait on Mon Apr 15, 2002 at 11:50:11 PM EST

I remember reading about astronauts (cosmonauts?) utilizing 15 minute power naps during period os extreme duress to help solve seemingly intractable problems. The people involved were on normal sleeping schedules but still found 15 minutes to be useful in rejuvenating the mind.

Some research (none / 0) (#135)
by mindstrm on Tue Apr 16, 2002 at 12:29:22 AM EST

I read... said that, most definately, people require with little variation 8 hours of sleep per day.
It can be spread out, or all at once.

There is a very real thing called 'sleep debt'.
You get 4 hours a night for 3 days, you come up 12 hours short, you WILL make up those hours at some point, whether it's an extra hour each night, or a long sleep, or nodding off into microsleeps through the day.


the need for sleep (4.00 / 1) (#141)
by tiger on Tue Apr 16, 2002 at 12:44:03 AM EST

The reason why we sleep is an open question. Probably most people guess that sleep does something restorative, such as the body doing repair work, or building up chemical reserves, or something like that.

My own view, which I arrived at a few years ago, is that sleep is a time during which reprogramming can take place.

Most people probably do not realize how universal sleep is throughout the animal kingdom. For example, insects sleep. I have written about what I understand sleep to be, in The Need for Sleep. The context assumes that our cells are, in effect, under programmatic control.

--
Americans :— Say no to male genital mutilation. In Memory of the Sexually Mutilated Child



Buckminster Fuller did this (4.50 / 2) (#152)
by Jonathan Walther on Tue Apr 16, 2002 at 03:42:19 AM EST

I don't know when Uberman developed the technique, but I read in Bucky Works: Buckminster Fullers Ideas for Today, by J. Baldwin that Bucky had developed this technique in the 1940s. According to Mr. Baldwin, Bucky followed this regimen for 2 years, gave it up for reasons unknown, although it was implied that he stopped to please his wife. Despite giving up this particular sleep schedule, Bucky was noted throughout his life for his perpetual level of energy and the long hours of work he would put in, with little sleep. Mr Baldwin was upset that the authors of the "Power Napping" concept didn't credit Bucky for being first.

(Luke '22:36 '19:13) => ("Sell your coat and buy a gun." . "Occupy until I come.")


sleep accumulates (none / 0) (#178)
by Rainy on Tue Apr 16, 2002 at 01:21:53 PM EST

I read in some research papers or articles that sleep accumulates over a very long period, a year or even a few years. In other words, if you cut down on sleep during one year, the next one you'll have to generally sleep longer or you'll have negative health effects.

By the way I remember reading recently here that Salvator Dali had a habit of taking cat naps - where he'd hold a spoon or a fork above a metal surface and go to sleep. As soon as he'd enter a phase where muscles relax, he'd get waken up by the noise.
--
Rainy "Collect all zero" Day

Everyone with kids does this (4.00 / 1) (#183)
by pkesel on Tue Apr 16, 2002 at 05:01:08 PM EST

Anyone who has experienced the first few months with a new baby, especially more than one, has done this. Especially those with a child that has sleep or eating problems. You learn to survive on an hour or so of sleep whenever you might get it. You often find after a while that you can't sleep more than that. It's remarkably frustrating.

My own experience (4.00 / 1) (#185)
by everyplace on Tue Apr 16, 2002 at 06:26:12 PM EST

In february I started working at a gas station (long story). Prior to working there, I had a normal sleep schedule, around 8 hours a night. But as soon as I started at the gas station, I was working the 11 pm to 7 am shift, and my sleep schedule was thrown into chaos.

The hardest part of adjusting was figuring out when I was supposed to behave as a normal person. Do I get up around 5 pm and work on my own stuff then, and go to work afterwards? Do I get up right before work and stay up until 2 pm?

What I ended up doing was forgetting any normal concept of sleep schedule, and opting for as little sleep as possible. These days, I get up at 10 pm, just enough time to get to work, and stay up until around 7 pm, which gives me an incredible ammount of time to do things.

Now, since as I said this is at a gas station in the middle of the night, things get really slow sometimes. There's a really loud bell on the front door to the place, so sometimes I sit down and power-nap for maybe 10 minutes, until someone comes in, and then I'm up and waiting on them. So I suppose this is cheating a little bit, but regardless.

When I get home from work, I'm up and doing things all day. My two roommates are awake at this time, so we can get our daily dose of interaction out of the way before they go to work. I can do my daily web routine, do some of my own creative work, and even fit in some house chores before sleeping again at around 7 pm for a few hours.

I'm not recommending this sleep schedule under any circumstances, I'm just throwing it out there for the record of diversity.

Looks ok to me! (4.25 / 4) (#191)
by KiTaSuMbA on Tue Apr 16, 2002 at 11:24:25 PM EST

Some points I'd like to underline:
Sleep is not a prescribed drug... you should get as much as you feel in need of. Thus, if you wake up and feel rested and fresh, go on with it, if not, go back to normal day-night cycles.
On the benefits, you should add the actual full REM sleep benefit: your memory and intellect is based on REM (yes, most work is done in sleep not awake, however strange this sounds). While working on mentally-heavy projects such a sleep cycle will help you cope better than usual day-night cycles. The fact is that you re-elaborate (in REM) your project chunk by chunk in each nap. I used a similar scheme, though not knowing there was a scientific description and kind of automatically turned myself in it, while studying Anatomy for the exam in Univ. I had a 15 days time for say, 2000 pages of Human Anatomy. I used to study a chapter then take a nap (30min - 1hr max) then back to the next one, resulting in a study time of 18hrs/day without ever feeling tired. It actually worked out with the best results but the drawback was I had to postpone the vacations a week after the exam because I couldn't get enough of my "just doing nothing" afterwards. Another scheme I tend (still not designing things, it just happens) to fall into is the so-called bi-circadian cycle (2 days, 1 night sleeping) while working in stressing projects. These periods last for about 2-3 weeks and I don't feel tired ever (not even afterwards). While not so fruitful for intense-thinking jobs this scheme works great for projects needing just a lot of work (e.g. designing an experiment is intense, going through statistics after semi-automated R scripts is not but takes lots of time). The rest of the time I practically have NO wake-sleep schedule whatsoever. Days pass I sleep 4 hrs and feel fine, days pass that I sleep 12 hrs and feel like a tank roamed over me, night or day, never minds.
Your larger appetite is by no means a drawback (unless you can't pay for filling that fridge every day :-P). You are awake 21/24 and even when asleep you are mostly on REM (thus thrusting your brains at warp 9 ;-) : energetical needs thus are expected to be higher. Orange juice and the like provide you with vitamin C which is an "anti-oxidant" helping your body while in physical stress (that is why orange juice is the best "medicine" against flu, as your grandmother told you).
The point of INTENSE, vivid dreams is the actual proof this works for you: pure REM activity. Another piece of personal experience: whenever studied *seriously* an exam, I would always dream about the contents of the exam the days before it. I remember writing down the formulas in Biochemistry I without even reasoning, I just remembered the dream, heh.
WHAT TO WATCH OUT FOR:
1) A stronger tendency to occasional illness (like colds and the like). More hours awake means more stress for your body.
2) Taking up weight. Your increased appetite might induce you in eating up just about everything. Strict food schedules may help.
3) If you are required to handle heavy/complex equipment (like a bulldozer?) you better leave this sleep schedule behind. These rapid sleepyness attacks can cost serious damage if not victims if they occur while at work.
4) restlessness: if you find out you are becoming "jumpy" in your social relationships, it would be a pure sign you are pushing your mind too much. Either relax, or abolish this scheme.
IMO, if none of the above happens, there is nothing to worry about. What seems to be the hardest part of it, is the adjustment period, as you already pointed out.
There is no Dopaminergic Pepperoni Kabal!
Your grape juice (4.50 / 2) (#198)
by Wulf on Wed Apr 17, 2002 at 03:14:20 AM EST

This really had me interested all day, especially because of my screwed up sleeping periods. Thanks to watchmaker for the term "polyphasic sleep". Claudio Stampi and his Chronobiology Institute has done a lot of research on this, though I couldn't find much online. He has a book called "Why we nap". I remember first hearing about him and polyphasic sleep on the Dateline special of Ellen MacArthur (She used polyphasic sleep while sailing around the Antarctic alone).

As for your grape juice addiction, I believe it has to do with the content of Alanine, though it's not much (around .208g per serving). Alanine is used in the metabolism of Tryptophan, an important neurotransmitter.
Something else that would worry me about missing out on NonREM sleep is your bodies production of Melatonin, described as the "time setting hormone", the production of GH, and Serotonin. Also, the already mentioned increased production of Cortisol.

I would recommend that you take a full vitamin supplement, like Centrum and a drug called Ademetionine (don't know commercial name). Adementionine is an excellent antioxidant, helps your liver work well (production of serotonin) and works as a mild antidepressant. I will be trying polyphasic sleep when summer starts and I will keep a detailed journal. I hope I can also take some medical tests while I'm in the middle of it. Good luck and keep us posted.


---
"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it"
- Calvin

My experience... (4.00 / 1) (#200)
by jonr on Wed Apr 17, 2002 at 07:21:23 AM EST

Very interesting. My sleeping habits are somewhat strange. I have been battling cronic depression for over 10 years,so that may have something to do with it. Very often I have problem going to sleep, and problem getting up. My mind is in high gear when I go to sleep, and I feel restless and urge to do something. Watching Discovery or BBC Learning can help, but I find movies boring and uninteresting. I sometimes don't fall asleep until 4, even though I have gotten up at 8. I would love to take 20 min. powernap, when I have the chance I feel very energetic and and productive. But that 3 week adjustment time sounds like pure torture. J.

Attention: Topic Poster! (4.00 / 2) (#208)
by CAIMLAS on Wed Apr 17, 2002 at 02:51:59 PM EST

A couple questions I might ask:

  • What are the effects of physical activity, compared to a normal 8-hour sleep schedule?
  • If/When you become physically injured, how does the heal time correlate to that of an 8-hour sleep schedule?
  • Have you noticed any changes in your physical appearance,tactility feeling? Skin, weight, muscles, joints, shakes/shaking, unsteadyness, blurry vision, tension, etc?
  • Is your energy level perpetually high, or does it come in bursts, and burn out quickly?
  • Are you truely more functional throughout the day, or do you simply have more time?
  • Have you noticed any changes in your mentality: the way you relate to others, your emotional state, or your thought process?

    I feel that, if this type of thing can be pulled off without physical or mental ailment, it could be an incredible thing for society, provided the long-term effects are not disasterous (IE, shorter life span, or aging more quickly). In our 24/7 society, this could be greatly beneficial.

    It'd be interesting to see how this contrasts with how things are done today in the world and the Biblical way of doing sleep (most likely working your ass off all of daylight hours and some/a large part of the night (possibly spent in social activities), and then sleeping for a large part of the Sabath - a technique I've attempted myself).
    --

    Socialism and communism better explained by a psychologist than a political theorist.

  • Grape juice flavonoids (3.00 / 1) (#216)
    by Scrymarch on Thu Apr 18, 2002 at 06:40:08 AM EST

    A veterinary friend informs me that grape juice has flavonoids in it that help recycle antioxidants, very deep cycle sleep-ish.

    A cursory googling uncovers a few pop health type articles on the topic.

    Another alternative: 28 hour day (4.00 / 2) (#218)
    by rampy on Thu Apr 18, 2002 at 02:09:09 PM EST

    heh... 6 day week/28 hour day *shrug* just something I stumbled upon a long time ago in my quest for weird and geeky links. rampy
    www.randomdrivel.com -- Fish, plankton, sea-greens, and protein from the sea!
    Links to Everything2 (4.00 / 1) (#219)
    by n0nick on Thu Apr 18, 2002 at 03:11:55 PM EST

    The link to Everything2 should not include the "lastnode_id" parameter. Such link would create an unwanted softlink between this lastnode and the linked node.
    The link should instead be directed to: http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=892542.
    Thank you.
    --
    "Outside? Is that the big room with the blue sky? There aren't any computers out there." -- DesiredUsername

    I just started on this cycle yesterday (5.00 / 1) (#226)
    by SlightlyMadman on Mon Apr 22, 2002 at 12:12:36 PM EST

    If anybody is still curious about trying this, but wants to hear a few more peoples' experience first, you can track my progress here:

    http://slightlymad.net/polyphasic/

    I'll try to update at least daily.

    Daily Logs (none / 0) (#228)
    by rawchicken on Fri May 10, 2002 at 12:34:35 AM EST

    I've started a daily log of my attempt at the Uberman sleep schedule as well. Please feel free to post any helpful hints on my site.

    OK brainiacs, I think you might have this backward (none / 0) (#230)
    by sserendipity on Fri May 24, 2002 at 05:45:48 PM EST

    I'm trying a longer, more mellow route to a reduced sleep schedule.

    I've started out by taking the naps >first<, practicing to expect a 'rest' every four hours or so, before eliminating the nightly sleep period. This way, I don't have to become insanely tired, and have to show ridiculous amounts of will power to get out of bed at any time (which I couldn't do :>)

    (It goes without saying that I'd already quit all sleep interupting chemical intake - no more booze, weed or caffeine; I never smoked tobacco. I also started taking vitamins - a multi, plus Niacin, Vitamin C, and B complex)

    Every four hours, I take a 20 minutes to nap; about 10 minutes actually asleep. (At some point I'm going to take a good half hour for this, something I wish I been doing from the beginning) If you are remotely tired as it is, this won't be nearly as hard as it sounds - I actually find it much easier to fall asleep like this than used to do at each night (I used to spend hours trying to sleep each night). I've got myself down from 9 hours of fitful sleep each day to a very restful 6, including four naps.

    I've never felt better, though unfortunately, the lifestyle I'm seeking will require reducing my sleep even further.

    I wake up without an alarm clock, though I'm not getting much more than about 5-10 minutes of REM sleep at this point. I think that will come in the next step, when I start getting less sleep each night.

    I've been on this for a month now, with a couple of days backsliding to a full 10+ hours of sleep, which I expected to happen. Getting back to where I was sleeping at each nap took two or three of days each time. When I miss my nap, I already >miss<it - I feel about as groggy as I used to every day before I tried this system. Could it be that some people are better off sleeping like this? <P> Next, I'm going try waking up in the middle of the night each night, doing a few things (a few minutes music practice) before going back to sleep, and also waking up earlier and earlier in the morning.

    Doesn't this make a little more sense than the 'suicide' method that most people have used? It's also a lot more practical for those of us that have jobs (like myself), and aren't just crazy college students playing games with their body for a lark.

    Sure, it remains to be seen whether it works or not, but I would imagine that it will be a great deal easier to 'make the jump' now that I can happily nap every four hours, and have already cut back my daily sleep amount considerably.

    ..bIz...


    (؛·.¸(¨*·.¸.¸¸...¸¸.¸.·*¨)¸.·؛)
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    Other polyphasic systems (none / 0) (#231)
    by xeeban on Wed Jun 19, 2002 at 04:17:55 AM EST

    Some friends and I have been doing a similar sleep schedule, but instead of the hard core 20 minute naps every 4 hours, we've added a "core sleep" period of 3 hours in the early morning. As of the time of this post, we've been on the schedule now for 20 days and still going strong. If interested in our experiment notes and logs, you can see our progress at: http://polyphasic.blogspot.com

    Mailing list set up for people trying this (none / 0) (#232)
    by sserendipity on Fri Jun 21, 2002 at 06:02:19 PM EST

    Hi, I've set up a mailing list for people trying the uberman sleep schedule. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/uberman/ sserendipity

    ..bIz...


    (؛·.¸(¨*·.¸.¸¸...¸¸.¸.·*¨)¸.·؛)
    «.· ° ·.groovetronica.com.· ° ·.»
    _(¸.·؛(¸.·¨'"'¨¨"¨¨'"'¨·.¸)؛·.¸)_


    Uberman's sleep schedule | 232 comments (227 topical, 5 editorial, 0 hidden)
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