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A beginner's guide to the Latin language, part 1

By IHCOYC in Culture
Sat Dec 21, 2002 at 08:56:46 AM EST
Tags: Culture (all tags)
Culture

In a world that was better governed than the one in which we are forced to dwell, Latin was the foundation of the educational system, and the fountain of literacy: to know how to read and write was to know how to read and write Latin.  Knowing Latin, you could speak to anyone else who had been educated under the same régime.  Knowledge of the Latin language remains a matter worth pursuing.

For speakers of English, Latin offers more than most others of the valuable intellectual exercise that comes from the study of foreign languages.  It opens a door to the classical, mediæval, and renaissance worlds.  The Latin language has a solemn beauty and cultural resonance that few others share.  It enhances your appreciation of the greatest music written in Europe.  In this article, which your interest or lack of same may turn into a series of several, we consider the grammatical structure of Latin and how it contrasts with English.


Latin: an Indo-European language

Latin is an Indo-European language, the best attested member of the Italic family, a group that included a number of other languages formerly spoken on the Italian peninsula, including Oscan, Umbrian, Sicel, and Faliscan.

English, also, is an Indo-European language, but contemporary English has lost many of the distinctively Indo-European features that Latin retains.  As a result, those who would understand Latin must learn to frame their thoughts in a rather different structure. 

The Latin noun

English retains the inherited structure of `case,' the inflection of nouns, most clearly in the pronouns.  In the conventional terms, I is a "nominative" form; me is an `oblique' form that serves as both "genitive" and "dative;" and my is a "genitive" form.  Common nouns in English do not use an oblique case; they only have a genitive, which in English is often called a "possessive" case.

In Latin, all nouns have these cases, and several others.  The cases give Latin a flexibility and concision that English lacks. Here, for example, is the singular paradigm of equus, meaning "horse."

equus, (the) horse (Nominative)
equi, the horse's (Genitive)
equo, to a horse (Dative)
equum, the horse (Accusative)
eque, Hello, horse! (Vocative)
equo, by, at, from, with, or in a horse (Ablative)

These cases allow Latin to do things English cannot.  In English, you can say I gave her an apple, where her is marked by its case form as being in the `dative' case, an indirect object.  A proper noun can go there: I gave Mary an apple; or a title like teacher.

In Latin, these would be:

malum ei dedi
malum Mariæ dedi
malum magistro dedi
malum equo dedi

Observe also that in Latin, since the functions of the words are defined by the case forms or `endings' they bear, you can reorder them freely to emphasise one over the other.  Malum equo dedi, equo malum dedi, malum dedi equo, equo dedi malum, and dedi malum equo share the same literal meaning, and differ in emphasis. 

But when you change the case, you change the meaning: malum equus dedi can only mean "I'm a horse, and I gave an apple," or "While I was a horse, I gave an apple." It's not ungrammatical per se in Latin, but the unusual sentiment is hard to render in English. 

The `ablative' case in Latin is especially distinctive.  It inherits the role of three Indo-European cases, the original ablative case, plus two others called `locative' and `instrumental.' You'd have to cope with all three of these if you were studying Russian or Lithuanian, whose nouns are even more conservatively Indo-European.

The ablative case serves as the target of several very common prepositions.  It can also stand by itself, and takes the place of what in English becomes a whole prepositional phrase:

equo iter feci, I made a journey on horseback (or, by my horse)

The ablative is also used in a handy construction which grammar books call the "ablative absolute." It uses the ablative case to take the place of a whole subordinate clause in English:

Bello consummato, miles domum rediit. After the war was won, the soldier returned home.

The ablative has other uses, roughly similar to this one: whenever you want to specify the way something happened, how things are different, or why it happened so, you usually turn to the ablative case.  Grammarians give different names to each of these several uses, but once you have been through them all you start to see a theme developing.

Latin resembles Japanese more than it does English in the way it handles nouns.  In Japanese, you have various particles, which serve as grammatical markers that define how a noun phrase relates to the rest of the sentence.  You have some liberty of changing the position of these noun phrases if their function is defined by the particle.  In Latin, the case endings serve the same goal, and allow the speaker even more freedom to move things around, for the sake of emphasis and euphony. 

The Latin verb

The English verb has lost even more of its original structure than the English noun has.  In Latin, the verb retains much of its original Indo-European structure: it has voice (active and middle/passive); tense, number, and mood.

The Latin active verb is easy enough if you know Spanish, which of course descends directly from it.  As in Spanish, a pronoun subject can in most cases be omitted.  Spanish has retained most of the indicative tenses and many of the subjunctive ones.  The relationship is apparent enough from the following present tense active paradigm:

amo I love;
amas you (singular) love;
amat he, she, or it loves;
amamus we love;
amatis you (plural) love;
amant they love

In addition to these active forms, however, the Latin verb also has a set of passive forms that reverse the relationship between the subject and the action.  Historically, the passive forms are often distinguished from the active by the presence of an /r/ infix:

amor I am loved;
amaris you (singular) are loved;
amatur he, she, or it is loved;
amamur we are loved;
amamini you (plural) are loved;
amantur they are loved

The availability of these forms, unmatched by anything in a living Germanic language, again adds concision and expressiveness to Latin.  In English, the "passive voice" requires extra words to make the paraphrase.  The fact that it suppresses who is doing the deed makes it seem weaselly, and makes it suspect to style commentators.  No such opprobrium attaches to the passive voice in Latin, where these verb forms stand on an equal footing with the active voice.

More importantly, the availability of many inflectional forms gives Latin the power to express more in a single word; English, to do the same job, would require several auxiliaries and adverbs.  The single Latin word amer! in idiomatic English would have to be rendered as "let me be loved!" or "I hope I will be loved!" Such is the power of a language with living subjunctive and passive inflections. 

Language and Difficulty

Latin is supposed to be more difficult for English speakers than, say, German or Spanish.  This difficulty is in fact an advantage.

Looked at as a huge table to memorise, the Latin inflections may well seem daunting to the newcomer.  There are, of course, internal regularities in them as there are in the inflections of any language; the Spanish verb is only slightly less daunting than a Latin verb is.  The difficulty is only partially here.

Rather, the difficulty in learning Latin consists in changing your habits of thought out of the synthetic and positional world of English syntax into the analytic and inflectional world that Latin supplies.  There is nothing necessarily simpler about having to memorise dozens of prepositions and idioms that Latin can dispense with, since it uses cases for many of the same tasks.  It is, simply, different.  Mastering that difference has value.

To learn any foreign language is to learn how to draw distinctions that exist in that language, which may not map neatly into those drawn by your native tongue.  The Spanish distinction between ser and estar does not exist at all in English; those who would master that language must learn to think differently. 

Latin, with its inflectional syntax, requires even more adjustments to your habits of thinking than Spanish does. Writing Latin properly is less a matter of finding the right Latin word, and more a problem of moving from thinking in an English based structure to the quite different structure of Latin. 

For an example of how different it is, consider the opening of The Aeneid:

Arma virumque cano, Troiæ qui primus ab oris
Italiam, fato profugus, Laviniaque venit
litora, multum ille et terris iactatus et alto
vi superum sævæ memorem Iunonis ob iram;

Word for word, in English, this would be rendered as: (The) arms (arma) man-and (virum-que) sing-I (can-o), of-Troy (Troiæ) who (qui) first (primus) from (ab) shores (oris) to-Italy (Italia-m), from-fate (fat-o) a fugitive (profugus), Lavinian-and (Lavinia-que) came-he (veni-t) banks (litora), much (multum) that-one (ille) and (et) on-lands (terr-is) tossed (iactatus) and (et) by-high (alt-o) power (vi) of-gods (super-um) of-bitter (sæv-æ) remembering (memorem) of-Juno (Iunon -is) for (ob) wrath (iram).

In somewhat more natural English: I sing of arms and the man, destined to be a fugitive, who first came from the shoes of Troy to the Lavinian banks.  Only after he had endured much was he at last cast up on land by the high power of the gods; even so, he must always remember the wrath of bitter Juno. 

Obviously, moving from Latin to English, or vice versa, requires major adjustments in your thinking habits.  Acquiring the ability to make those changes is a benefit of learning Latin that is at least as important as the ability to read the language itself.

For further reference:

Allen and Greenough's New Latin Grammar online. New? Has it changed?

The Latin Library. A well organised collection of Latin texts.

Latin course for the Virtual School of Languages. A beginning online course in Latin; rather elementary.

Wheelock's Latin. Still probably the best introductory book on the language. An Amazon.com link.

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Poll
Were I a Roman Emperor, I'd be:
o Julius Caesar 3%
o Nero 11%
o Marcus Aurelius 23%
o Claudius 6%
o Caligula 18%
o Hadrian 14%
o Octavian Augustus 19%
o Elagabalus 3%

Votes: 126
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o Allen and Greenough's New Latin Grammar online
o The Latin Library
o Latin course for the Virtual School of Languages
o Wheelock's Latin
o Amazon.com
o Also by IHCOYC


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A beginner's guide to the Latin language, part 1 | 137 comments (109 topical, 28 editorial, 0 hidden)
Eugapae! (I believe that's how it's spelled) (none / 0) (#1)
by artsygeek on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 02:33:13 PM EST

I can finally put my Latin to use....besides my uses in BS-ing my wayt through biology, being able to know what the Hell they're saying when i go to a Catholoic church for Latin Mass...and besides being able to make up really neat words.  "If you can't dazzle 'em with briliance, Baffle 'em with BS".

-1, flamebait (none / 0) (#2)
by eudas on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 03:27:12 PM EST

A beginner's Guide to Latin, Part 1.

Step 1.
Go out and buy a beginner's book on latin.

Step 2.
Take said book home, and commence studying it.

More information to follow in part 2!!

eudas
"Nothing is on fire, but the day is still young" -- Phil the Canuck

Latin Lessons online (4.50 / 2) (#3)
by graal on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 03:42:36 PM EST

Dr. Peter Jones of England did a multi-part series of elementary Latin lessons online. They disappeared from the Telegraph UK website, reappeared on a Latin/Greek resource website and but disappeared again. I've the whole series of lessons saved locally, but recently saw the whole set repackaged and sold in book form at the local Barnes & Noble.

(The google cache of the second incarnation of the lessons is here.)

He has an elementary Greek course, too, though it's really finely tuned for basic New Testament texts.

Oddly enough, I searched Amazon, but couldn't come up with any current entries for the book...just something in the zShops.

Wacky.


--
For Thou hast commanded, and so it is, that every
inordinate affection should be its own punishment.
-- St. Augustine (Confessions, i)

Ancient problems (3.00 / 2) (#4)
by Pac on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 03:45:54 PM EST

Troiæ qui primus ab oris

Translation: Trolls are our foremost horror.

Evolution doesn't take prisoners


Favorite Latin motto (4.00 / 2) (#6)
by bobpence on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 04:02:04 PM EST

Near the start of the U.S. Revolutionary War, the Continental Congress issued paper money, including a three-dollar bill with the motto exitus in dubio est -- "the outcome is in doubt." As the paper money was not backed with hard currency, the colonies soon experienced hyperinflation probably not seen again until the Weimar Republic. I like to think that while the construction "phony as a three-dollar bill" is often traced to the aftermath of the U.S. Civil War, popular belief in the dubiousness of three-dollar notes might be traced to about four score and seven years earlier.
"Interesting. No wait, the other thing: tedious." - Bender
Ecce! In pictura est puella. (4.00 / 1) (#7)
by Kellnerin on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 04:20:59 PM EST

*grumble* After all these years, I still remember how my first Latin book began. I'm sure there's some useful information I could be storing there instead ...

Anyway, this is just to say that I'll thwack anyone who makes the old "semper ubi sub ubi" joke. That is all.

--I'm pregnant. I'm stealing your pickle. -iGrrrl --

Better than traditional intro to Clasical Greek (none / 0) (#9)
by HidingMyName on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 04:23:51 PM EST

Historically, most U.S. (and probably in other English speaking countries), Latin was considered a prerequisite for Classical (Attic) Greek. So there are many older texts where the Greek language is explained in Latin.

From my limited exposure, Latin is more regular and easier to learn than Classical Greek, so perhaps this is why this model of teaching developed.

Huh? (4.00 / 3) (#11)
by Anonymous Commando on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 04:33:04 PM EST

It enhances your appreciation of the greatest music written in Europe.

How does knowing Latin enhance my appreciation of ABBA, A-Ha, and Ace of Base? I just don't follow the logic on that one...
Corporate Jenga™: You take a blockhead from the bottom and you put him on top...

best latin phrase ever: (3.00 / 2) (#14)
by zephc on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 04:52:41 PM EST

"Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem"

That was then (3.50 / 2) (#15)
by theElectron on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 05:01:16 PM EST

In a world that was better governed than the one in which we are forced to dwell, Latin was the foundation of the educational system, and the fountain of literacy: to know how to read and write was to know how to read and write Latin. Knowing Latin, you could speak to anyone else who had been educated under the same régime.

The same can be said of English today.

--
Join the NRA!

note on latin government (2.35 / 17) (#18)
by turmeric on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 05:51:31 PM EST

"A world that was better governed"???

YEAH BLOODY LOVELY> WOMEN WERE TREATED LIKE PROPERTY AND COULDNT VOTE.

SLAVERY WAS LEGAL

PUBLIC EXECUTION WAS A FORM OF ENTERTAINMENT AND PROFIT.

RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION DEVELOPED INTO A CAPITALIST ORGY OF BLOOD FOR PUBLIC SPECTACLE.

SOVERIEGNTY? RULE OF LAW? JUSTICE? SCREW THAT, THEY JUST TAKE OVER YOUR GODDAMN COUNTRY AND ENSLAVE YOU AND MURDER YOU AND STEAL YOUR LAND!

THEIR HEROES: SOCRATES, PLATO, ETC, A BUNCH OF MISERABLE GRUMPY OLD MEN WHO ENJOYED RAPING BOYS AND HATING WOMEN. AND MURDERING 'BARBAR'IANS (SINCE THE LATIN CULTURE WAS TOO GODDAMN STUPID TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN ANYONE THAT WASNT LIKE IT. TALK ABOUT YOUR GODDAMN HELLMOUTH. )

OH GOD BLESS LATIN CULTURE OH SO LOGICAL AND NOBLE, So WONDEROUSLY SCIENTIFIC THAT THEY COULDNT EVEN COUNT PAST 4000 NOR DO LONG MULTIPLICATION WITH THEIR BACK ASSWORDS STUPID MORONIC NUMBER SYSTEM. SO CREATIVE THEY HAD TO STEAL ALL THEIR CULTURE FROM GREECE AND EGYPT. SO NOBLE THEY RANSACKED EVERY INNOCENT VILLAGE FROM BRITAIN TO TURKEY.

THE ROMANS CAN KISS MY BIG AMERICAN FREEDOM LOVING ASS. SMOOCHY SMOOCHY. SHIT HEADs. MAY YOUR EMPIRE ROT IN HELL FOR ETERNITY ALONG WITH YOUR FREAK-ALICIOUS "LEADERS" OBSESSED WITH RAPING AND MURDERING EACH OTHER AND THEIR PEOPLE. WONDERFUL GODDAMN EXAMPLE YOU GOT THERE, FELLAS.

oi barbaroi (4.33 / 3) (#21)
by paine in the ass on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 06:04:45 PM EST

kakos estin oi barbaroi kai o twn barbarwn dialektos.

(apologies for lack of a good Greek font, and for any error which may have occurred...my Greek is slightly rusty).


I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion.

poll (3.50 / 2) (#25)
by slothman on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 07:27:10 PM EST

you forget the all important Cincinatus. I would want to be him. He was one of the best leaders in all of history. [us]Even Washington wanted to be like him.[/us]

carpe bovum (4.16 / 6) (#29)
by ogre on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 08:26:45 PM EST

This would be a good article if it weren't for the trolling asides about English. Those comments might have been acceptable fifty years ago, but advances in linguistics have rendered such linguistic bigotry inane.

Everybody relax, I'm here.

Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis. (3.66 / 3) (#30)
by TheOnlyCoolTim on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 08:31:38 PM EST

Carpe testiculos meos, puer! Cupio ejaculare in tuum orem.

Sometimes I think it would be fun to be a slashdot troll in Latin.

Tim
"We are trapped in the belly of this horrible machine, and the machine is bleeding to death."

And if you want to make use of that Latin .. (4.60 / 5) (#31)
by Eloquence on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 08:37:46 PM EST

.. there's actually a Latin Wikipedia. It's understandably small (unlike the impressively active Esperanto Wikipedia / "Vikipedio"), but probably still a good place to hang out with other people who speak/write this "dead language".

Also, since some Latin-fans will probably read this comment -- I'm looking for a modern translation of the Theodosian Code, what I've found so far is out of print and rather expensive. Is there any recent reprint or a new translation that I may have missed?
--
Copyright law is bad: infoAnarchy · Pleasure is good: Origins of Violence
spread the word!

I used to be an unedjumacated clown. (3.50 / 2) (#38)
by porkchop_d_clown on Fri Dec 20, 2002 at 10:12:01 PM EST

Now I can say things like "Recedite, plebes! Gero rem imperialem" with grace and panache!

Thanks, IHCOYC!


--
Now, where did I put that clue? I'm sure I had one a minute ago....


fuck ya (1.50 / 2) (#43)
by ipex on Sat Dec 21, 2002 at 12:09:05 AM EST

make us into academics, I love it

file this right next to the physics reviews

Emperor selection (4.33 / 3) (#55)
by anonimouse on Sat Dec 21, 2002 at 07:01:14 AM EST

Of the selection, I'm surprised that Caligula and Nero have so many votes, voters obviously don't remember how long they lasted and how they died.

Julius and Elagabalus were both murdered, and it's believed that Augustus and Claudius may have had their demise hastened. Which leaves Marcus Aurelius (it's believed he died naturally despite what you may watch in Gladiator) and Hadrian.

Of the two I'd pick Hadrian; although he had to do a lot of marching he was presiding over a stable Empire, whereas Marcus was trying his best to hold the line. Besides, Aurelius was succeeded by Commodus, a world class twat if ever there was one, whereas Hadrian passed on a stable succession.
~
Sleepyhel:
Relationships and friendships are complex beasts. There's nothing wrong with doing things a little differently.

statu quo (none / 0) (#58)
by tichy on Sat Dec 21, 2002 at 08:00:31 AM EST

Since we're at it, I had Latin in high school. I loved it, personally, but that's not the point. I was told back then that the well abused phrase is 'statu quo' (ablative) not 'status quo'. Anyone know where this expression comes from and can clarify?

Write in: constantine (none / 0) (#61)
by local roger on Sat Dec 21, 2002 at 09:49:03 AM EST

And this time I'd decide NOT to make chritianity the state religion. Instead, I think i'd try scientology. Yeah.

On the bloody morning after / One tin soldier rides away. -- Joan Baez
Not the best way to begin learning a langauge (4.33 / 9) (#66)
by Boldra on Sat Dec 21, 2002 at 12:19:16 PM EST

Obviously trying to teach a langauge in 1700 words isn't going to get very far, but I think this was a largely useless introduction to a language.

Firstly, for people who haven't already studied a language, there's not a lot of point just listing the names of the cases that occur in the language. I think it's especially dubious when you're talking about latin - since most of the case names are latin words! Generally, a good place to start is listing some translations of common words, and conjugating the very useful verb "to be".

Secondly, a more standard approach to language teaching is to start by introducing some useful phrases maybe "where is the circus?" Of course being a dead language, Latin is a little unusual.

Maybe I'm just trolling, but I don't think this post was anything more than an opportunity for people to demonstrate their knowledge of latin, and as a "HOW TO" it serves no purpose at all.

BTW - in the third paragraph you refer to "me" as genetive. Unless you're talking about the rather dubious usage "I hurt me arm!", you probably wanted to say it's accusative.




- Boldra
to all of you who think this was a bad intro (4.25 / 4) (#75)
by Dogun on Sat Dec 21, 2002 at 02:55:32 PM EST

I should remind you that in fact he's conjugated first conjugation verbs, in the present tense, both active and passive, in addition to declining first declension nouns. In addition, he's breifly gone over some differences between Latin and other languages, Latin and english, shown you what you will be able to translate much later on, (the Aeneid), and though he hasn't gone over the specifics of any case, he's given a good INTRODUCTION to Latin. Assuming his next one starts with some more present tense verb work, more stuff with nouns, adjectives, and goes over in more detail one of the cases - whether it be dative, accusative, genetive, nominative, ablative, or the elusive locative case, I think this could be a rather interesting regular installment to kuro5hin. I took lating for 6 years, though it's been 3 years since then, but I still read the Amores, the Aeneid, some Catullus... a review would probably be good, methinks, as as time passes I seem to be able to translate less and less. Lucretius, once easy for me, has become obscure. So I would mod any subsequent posts up in hopes of seeing them on the front page. Out of greed and out of wanting to see some other people learn a useless but rich language. Oh, and for those of you who hope to read some signs or something from the movie gladiator, they've got grammatical errors, sorry to sink your battleship.

Indeed (none / 0) (#78)
by nanook on Sat Dec 21, 2002 at 04:20:19 PM EST

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

--
"I am a charlatan, a liar, a thief and a fake altogether." -- James Randi

A couple notes... (4.00 / 2) (#79)
by Sairon on Sat Dec 21, 2002 at 04:44:52 PM EST

one, I have had to learn the Italian language for practical purposes, being an American in Italy. Alot is the same, and I can say that you do need to change the way you think. Native English speakers who try to directly translate word-for-word have a great difficulty communicating. Simply learning to think and speak another language works much better. It can be a tiring thing to do at first, but is well worth it. Pay attention to the flow and sound of it, and it becomes easier. It's the same as how something 'sounds' right in English.

Also, I was recently in a bar with several Spanish speaking people. I found that we were able to communicate quite freely in an odd combination of Italian, Spanish and English. French, though, just sounds horrid to me. Perhaps thats because I generally don't get along with the French people as well. :)

As a final note, I've found that English has replaced Latin as the language of education. Anyone I know that is educated in Italy knows English rather well. The uneducated do not. I've met people from many different nations who can speak English to a level where I can communicate with them. This, though, I think is a poor excuse for native English speakers to only speak English. I'm glad I've had a chance to be taught another language by its native speakers. Good luck to anyone learning Latin!

Jared

Your lackluster intro (1.57 / 7) (#81)
by uniball vision micro on Sat Dec 21, 2002 at 05:07:41 PM EST

"In a world that was better governed than the one in which we are forced to dwell,"

Which 'world' was this? The Roman empire had a series of problems. Their modern counterparts the Byzantines were mostly just cheap people who bought off most of their enemies.

" Latin was the foundation of the educational system, and the fountain of literacy: to know how to read and write was to know how to read and write Latin."

So your point? And being able to read and write in America means you know english.

"  Knowing Latin, you could speak to anyone else who had been educated under the same régime."

Yeah it's called a classical education and thank god that disappeared from the face of the earth. Want to know what subject people on earth failed most (a hint the article is about it)?

"  Knowledge of the Latin language remains a matter worth pursuing. "

For antiquarians, and people with little to do in their lives.

"For speakers of English, Latin offers more than most others of the valuable intellectual exercise that comes from the study of foreign languages. "

Oh here it comes some rather trite explanation of why anyone would care. It's a *DEAD* language. get over it.

" It opens a door to the classical, mediæval, and renaissance worlds."

Which are written in more books than almost any subject for nearly 500+ years in English. You don't need to read and write latin.

"  The Latin language has a solemn beauty and cultural resonance that few others share."

Yeah whatever that's all relative.

"  It enhances your appreciation of the greatest music written in Europe."

Italian is more about music unless you count ancient monotonal chanting and even then that dosn't count for much.

" In this article, which your interest or lack of same may turn into a series of several, we consider the grammatical structure of Latin and how it contrasts with English. "

Boooorrrrriiiiinnggggg! How could anyone get through some <i>grammatical</i> analysis of one of the most pointless languages on earth. Reading the phone book is more interesting.
"So far as the record goes, no lover of drinking has yet gone out into the night and shot himself as a gesture of protest" Gilbert Seldes, The Future of Drinking 1930

I want to thank you for this intro. (5.00 / 6) (#88)
by Krankor on Sat Dec 21, 2002 at 09:10:16 PM EST

Yes, I know there is nothing new in Latin, it's not some "must try it
now" Object Oriented fade like Slashdot likes to boast every week.  It
has in fact been here for a while, and this is the problem with it. It
is so ubiquitous that the same year I was to have my first "mandatory"
Latin course, they took it off the official cursus and cancelled all
classes.

At the time I wasn't too sad, since it meant one less subject to
fail/pass.  

But now, I'm not so sure.

I do speak 4 languages in total, mostly because I was born in a
bilingual place bordering France and Italy and after that because of my
travels.  English and German came after.  In all these cases I admit to
see things clearer and learn languages better if I refer to old Greek
and Latin.  Today I'm learning Japanese on my own and as you said, the
subject + something + verb structure is omnipresent since it is also a
language that expands to the left.

Latin, at a good level and not my pathetic and rudimentary one, would
have help a bit as it presents an other way very early of re-organising
your ideas. And since to speak a language you must do a sort of "NY
school of acting effort" to totally think in that language's logics, a
bit of Latin early on at school would have been a very good
saddle-braking of the mind.

An other great thing Latin and Greeks can be used to, is to see thru the
usual modern English corruption of words.  Compatibility vs
campatability is one example.

I my travels in the Old World, I have found in London a 1920 American
Webster dictionary.  It's a 2620 pages big huge book that has all the
roots in their respective language. Old Normand French, Germanic, Greek
and Latin. This is what your American well of all knowledge was, not so
long ago.  Check if there is such beast at your local library, this
really shows you a different America than the one that thinks"writeing"
is an English word.  Heck, I have visions of George Orwell's novlang
from 1984 as I am writing this.

Most misspelled English words today, or misunderstood, are of course
those alien looking Greek or Latin ones.  A bit of Latin would help here
or else you are going to find Italians, French or Spanish kids spelling
them and understanding them better than a native speaker.  Why should we
care? Well because each language is a sort of time capsule that contains
traces of contacts with other cultures.  You'll find some French words
in Russian (aristocracy), some old German in Scottish (old old roots
there), lots of them in bordering countries (obviously), and of course
in the case of English a patchwork of many roots. In fact English is one
of the most patchwork-ed languages I have ever seen, and of course there
is lots of Latin in it.  So an English speaker should be at least aware
of his/her patrimony.

A funny note, I have found that a few people take a pleasure out of
inverting Greek and Latin in modern words, claiming  a totally
different meaning just in order to put upset the "other guy". Is
hydroplaning THAT different from aquaplaning in meaning?  (water-planing
vs water-planing) Now that you know that both mean the same, would you
seriously fight over it? Some do, and I think the joke is on them.  Why?
 Because of Latin or Greek not being dead after all.

Of course there are those who say that Latin is totally dead as "English
is a Lingua Franca" very seriously without seeing the contradiction in
terms that sentence.  But I leave that sort of gaffe to G. W. Bush
himself.

applause (4.00 / 1) (#91)
by blisspix on Sat Dec 21, 2002 at 10:25:46 PM EST

great article. I've tried a few times to learn Latin but it really does need a lot of time devoted to it. Thanks for explaining some of the basic structural stuff.

Languages are essential if you do any professional writing at all, whether that's at work, or at university, or if you write fiction. Not because of the language itself, but because learning a language gives you a really good understanding of how English works. I've paid a lot more attention to grammar and sentence structure since I started a Master's degree and it's been made easier because I studied Italian for four years at school and university.

I look forward to part 2.

If i were to write this article (none / 0) (#92)
by sye on Sat Dec 21, 2002 at 10:41:57 PM EST

i'll finish it in just one sentence. Get G.D.A. Sharpley's "Essential Latin - The Language and life of ancient Rome" and don't waste your time chewing kuro5hin Latin linguini.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
commentary - For a better sye@K5
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ripple me ~~> ~allthingsgo: gateway to Garden of Perfect Brightess in crypto-cash
rubbing u ~~> ~procrasti: getaway to HE'LL
Hey! at least he was in a stable relationship. - procrasti
Enter K5 via my lair

Using Virgil as an example... (4.00 / 1) (#100)
by sean23007 on Sun Dec 22, 2002 at 10:47:48 AM EST

Using Virgil's Aeneid as an example of how different Latin is from English is deceiving at best. The Aeneid was a poem, and as such the words were often misplaced (even according to normal Latin conventions), many endings were changed or omitted, and many words are blended into the previous in order for Virgil to fit the poem into dactylic hexameter. This would be more accurate in comparison to something like Shakespeare, who often had to do the same things with his iambic pentameter.

A better comparison to English would be a work from Cicero, who was an orator rather than a poet. Virgil highlights a lot of differences between Latin and English, but so would many English poets were the positions reversed. How accurate a representation of the English language would we get if we only used the work of one poet to represent it? A comparison by Cicero might not show as many glaring differences, but it would be more accurate and more realistic.

Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
Questions on English grammar (none / 0) (#123)
by omghax on Wed Dec 25, 2002 at 03:53:21 AM EST

Dictionary.com says that an oblique case "designates any noun case except the vocative or genetive". You say that "me" is in the oblique case, but using the aforestated definition I am still unable to comprehend what it actually is. You say that "me" is genitive, but I was taught that the genitive case was the possessive case, and this contradicts the above definition, so I am even further confused. If you could explain this "oblique" case I would appreciate it.

Also, something has been nagging me - the English words "mine" and "yours". What are these? They appear to be forms of the words "I" and "you", respectively, but I do not know what case they would be in.



I put the "LOL" in phiLOLigcal leadership - vote for OMGHAX for CMF president!
A beginner's guide to the Latin language, part 1 | 137 comments (109 topical, 28 editorial, 0 hidden)
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