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FYIFV: A Microsoft Urban Legend

By adamba in Culture
Mon Jul 16, 2001 at 08:09:26 AM EST
Tags: Technology (all tags)
Technology

"Accusations that Microsoft's people lie, cheat and steal information are as much a part of the company's lore as its cadre of millionaires with FYIFV ('. . . I'm fully vested') buttons" - James Gleick, "Making Microsoft Safe for Capitalism", New York Times Magazine, November 5, 1995.

"FYIFV: Pin made and worn by many Microsoft employees after the company went public. It means, 'F*ck You I'm Fully Vested'" - Michael Flint, "Microsoft and the Freedom to Subjugate" web page.

Since I worked at Microsoft for a while, you figure I probably have one of those babies lying around, right?


Actually, I don't. And I never saw one during the ten years I worked there. So I got curious.

I asked some old time Microsoft employees about it. I got comments like, "I never saw a FYIFV T-shirt. I heard them discussed as something that people saw as over the top, a fun idea but too provocative," and, "It was never a button. Someone (who will remain nameless) talked about putting it on a t-shirt, but I never actually saw it end up on a shirt."

So why does this rumor keep popping up?

"A popular button appeared with the initials FYIFV: Fuck You, I'm Fully Vested" - Stephen Manes and Paul Andrews, Gates, Doubleday, January 1993.

I should explain what the quote refers to. Microsoft employees are granted stock option grants when they start working there. Actually not all employees, just the programmers and other employees who are deemed worthy. The options vest - become available to be exercised - following a set schedule, so that after 4 1/2 years all of the initial options can be exercised. Since an option allows the employee to buy stock at the price when the option was granted, and the stock generally will have risen in that period of time, the employee can buy the stock cheap and sell it on the open market, pocketing some nice change. So FYIFV would imply that the employee had been there long enough for his or her initial grant to vest, could generate piles of cash in a hurry, and therefore had to answer to no one.

For example, the quote above refers to the jubilation felt when Microsoft went public and people started cashing in stock. Well, I guess, although do you really believe that people would wear buttons that in effect said, "I'm richer than you?" Of course, we are talking about Microsoft people, so I can understand why it sounded believable.

There's another reason to doubt it, which is that employees (all employees, nowadays, even those who didn't get initial grants) are granted more options each year. These are usually less than the initial grant, but still this notion, that after 4 1/2 years the employee has gotten all the option money he or she is going to get, is simply false. Employees are never "fully vested," because the new option grants are vesting over time also.

"Realize that the primary motivator for employees of dominant commercial OS vendors is money (note buttons worn by Microsoft employees that read 'FYIFV', you can search around on the Web yourself to figure out the acronym)." - Chris McDonough, "Countering The No-Support Argument for Linux and Other Open Source Software Offerings" web page.

A quote like this one is a little more ominous. Now it is being used to imply that Microsoft employees are money-grubbing individuals and that this attitude extends into their motivation to write software. Someone who wore an FYIFV button is obviously not motivated by any sense of altruism, and merely wants to separate people from their cash as quickly as possible, software quality be damned.

"For years, Softies were wont to sport buttons that read FYIFV: Fuck You, I'm Fully Vested." - John Heileman, "The Truth, The Whole Truth, and Nothing But The Truth", Wired, November 2000.

Now you are hitting a bit too close to home. This sentence is in an article about the Justice Department lawsuit about Microsoft (the same quote appears in Heileman's book, Pride Before the Fall, based on the Wired article). The FYIFV button is being used to show that Microsoft employees are basically mean people, capable of anything including illegal monopoly extension. The paragraph leading up to that reads, "Extending a long middle finger to the government and your competitors is not conventional behavior among the top executives of most blue-chip companies. But, of course, Microsoft was different - self-consciously so. Populated by an army of young men (mainly), most of them unusually bright, many of them abnormally wealthy, working endless hours and pulling frequent all-nighters, Microsoft has always retained the air of a fraternity - a fraternity of rich eggheads, but a fraternity nonetheless."

So let me use this article as an attempt to debunk this myth. I received one somewhat definitive email about the origin of the phrase:

[Person X] is adamant that he NEVER made or wore an FYIFV button or T-Shirt. The story he tells is that he made a comment to the effect that some person was wearing their FYIFV T-Shirt that day, meaning that that person was being intransigent about something or other. The intended audience apparently understood that this was an entirely metaphorical reference, but someone else, not involved in the conversation, apparently overheard the crack and related it to Bill [Gates], misreporting the story by saying that [Person X] had actually made such a T-Shirt. [Person X] got called onto the carpet for this by Bill, who was skeptical that no such shirts actually existed and that [Person X] wasn't involved in their making. I had dinner with [Person X] that evening, and remember it well.

I only ever saw one actual FYIFV shirt. The person made it themself and wore it only on their final day at MS. This was maybe '92 or so, years after the original incident.

OK, so someone heard the story themselves and made up ONE shirt as a joke. It was never meant to imply all the things it has been taken to imply. Now I am not claiming that Microsoft is populated by a bunch of saints. They are as obnoxious and egotistical as anyone else, and they certainly do stroll around the hallways in Redmond with some rude T-Shirts and buttons, bearing slogans aimed at various competitors.

But FYIFV? No way.

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FYIFV: A Microsoft Urban Legend | 70 comments (68 topical, 2 editorial, 0 hidden)
Fascination with the Machine (3.00 / 7) (#1)
by rusty on Mon Jul 16, 2001 at 02:09:07 AM EST

I have to admit, I love this kind of story. Yeah, yeah, Evil Empire blah blah blah. I'm still fascinated with Microsoft, in a way, as a company. I think because it's a little micro-culture of it's own, a kind of petri dish of the wider tech culture. It's the nerd Galapagos.

I keep meaning to check out your book, Adam. :-)

____
Not the real rusty

Interesting story. (3.12 / 8) (#3)
by Crashnbur on Mon Jul 16, 2001 at 02:11:00 AM EST

I'm not quite sure how or why it makes any difference in how I live my life, but that's largely because it doesn't change my opinion of Microsoft one little bit. You see, I don't mind them making quality software, if they choose to make quality software. I am of the impression that, should Microsoft work a little harder, perhaps its software could be better, or perhaps there could be more.

I am also under the impression that Microsoft should have stayed out of the console gaming market, and the Xbox should not exist. However, now that it's coming, I may as well not hate them for it. If it's a quality machine, I certainly won't mind it. I just hate that there are so many "fanboys" that would rather spend money on an "American" machine that could be inferior ... Still, nothing worth comparing. Sony and Nintendo have fanboys too. And there's a chance (whether slim or huge) that Microsoft's Xbox will be better than both of their consoles. Time will tell, right?

So, um, interesting story. Come to think of it, I wish I had that shirt ... I'll have to check the local Hot Topic or Gadzooks to see if they have it. (For my sake, I hope those shops exist in other malls, or I've just mentioned two kickass shops that most of you have never heard of.)

crash.neotope.com


God, it's such creepy, creepy cult. (2.60 / 15) (#4)
by elenchos on Mon Jul 16, 2001 at 02:30:13 AM EST

Yuck. Like listening to Scientologists gossip about who would violate grand Power Lord Rule #112b. Person X indeed. Do you know that people with top secret clearance in the military can talk about themselves more openly? The easiest thing to believe is that at Microsoft there is nobody with the balls to do something so provacative. Woo hoo, yeah, they're an individualistic band of risk-takers, but an FYIFV button? Ooh, no that's just going too far. Let's not get crazy here. Next thing you know one of the guys will show up with his ear pierced!

Har. I think this would be a good submission for beliefnet or cultwatch or something. But why not... K5 needs something different.

"Oh, like you never thought about killing your mom, ya big hypocrites." It was at that moment that I realized how small the New German Cinema community re

Why Bother Refuting Rumors? (4.22 / 9) (#8)
by Carnage4Life on Mon Jul 16, 2001 at 03:06:02 AM EST

I'm really curious as to adamba's reason for posting this article. After reading it all I felt was that I was reading the writings of a hardcore MSFT apologist (which is weird since I work there).

Maybe I'm just cynical but the fact is that most outlandish rumors are typically half truths with a grain of truth. Here are two more rumors which grew to outlandish proportions from one or two simple events.
  1. The Microsoft tries to steal Linux kernel developers story which eventually was mentioned on both slashdot and kuro5hin was the action of a rookie HR employee who was looking for fresh ways to find computer geeks and was told by a friend (who's a afianced to my friend) that Linux users were rather computer geeky. That's it, no big evil conspiracy, just an act by someone who didn't realize how paranoid Linux users and the Open Source press were and exactly how deep the anti-MSFT sentiment went.

  2. Rumors that Trilogy recruiters will do anything to land a prospective candidate including sleep with them are based off of the actions of one recruiter who was supposedly reprimanded/fired when found out. This hasn't stopped that particular urban legend from spreading though.
These are a lot more rumors where I've spoken to people first hand which are exagerrated beyond belief that make me laugh when I hear them. Taking time to refute every single idle rumor and conspiracy theory being postulated by people with too much time on their hands seems like a phenomenal waste of time to me.

Perspective (2.83 / 6) (#14)
by slaytanic killer on Mon Jul 16, 2001 at 07:17:32 AM EST

I remember when I was a young'un hearing this rumor. I mean, really young. Interesting to hear this, since FYIFV was the first I'd heard of that company.

However to put it in perspective, if you lived in a college town, would you know of all the little pranks some fraternity did? MS probably was a fairly large company then with a couple hundred people, and no doubt there was some clique that imagined this would be a fun thing to do.

missed one of the early references (4.00 / 6) (#22)
by Anonymous 242 on Mon Jul 16, 2001 at 11:38:29 AM EST

James Wallace and Jim Erickson mention the FYIV phenomena in Hard Drive : Bill Gates and the Making of the Microsoft Empire. I believe that Hard Drive was published in 1992, which might make it the eariliest reference to FYIV.

FWIW, IIRC, in Hard Drive, FYIV wasn't mentioned to make all Microsoft employees out to be freedy SOBs. It was one anecdote out of many that attempted to describe the comraderie and atmosphere among the early signers on to Microsoft. Also, IIRC, Hard Drive relates how the shirts were swiftly put down by management and I believe they were supposed to have occurred shortly after the move to Redmond from Pheonix.

It's been well over five years since I've read Hard Drive, so I may or may not be recalling the tale correctly. It is a good read for anyone interested in Bill Gates.

Sieg Heil pal, (1.65 / 20) (#24)
by Jack Wagner on Mon Jul 16, 2001 at 01:45:24 PM EST

You just take your Nazi like propaganda and march right back to the ol homeland, verstehen? We don't need any more Microsoft people trying to work their mindcontrol magic on us hard working free thinking folks so you can just report back to the Fuhrer that kuro5hin is not going to buy into it, and maybe you should try another site. Lebe wohl .

Wagner LLC Consulting - Getting it right the first time
Who do you believe? (4.00 / 5) (#25)
by plutarch on Mon Jul 16, 2001 at 01:53:33 PM EST

In the absence of hard evidence, it comes down to credibility of the witness. And we know where that leads...
Leftism is the ideology of resentment. It is is the ideology of the frustrated will to power. It matters not how much or how little power the Leftist has at the moment. The point is, he wants more, and he can't get it.
what about the death marches? (4.00 / 2) (#43)
by prostoalex on Tue Jul 17, 2001 at 12:10:29 AM EST

It's interesting, I have just finished reading David Kaplan's "Silicon Boys and the Valley of Their Dreams", of course, you have to give the guy a credit for writing a book about the Valley, but there's a whole chapter dedicated to Microsoft, named Godzilla, the title is self-explanatory.

Microsoft definitely has one of the brightest corporate cultures in the Northwest, that was one of the reasons I started collecting the Microsoft jargon from different web sites and printed materials.

The FYIV notion has always seemed kinda unrealistic to me, it was more of the Valley type, where the rich kids took the investors' money and played around with them.

Are the death marches and Bill sigtings, though, a real thing?

I'd be inclined to accept this... (5.00 / 2) (#59)
by jd on Tue Jul 17, 2001 at 03:06:15 PM EST

...After all, we all know that the friction between Microsoft and the "outside world" -can- get a little heated. at times. We also all know that, under circumstances like that, urban legends -do- have a habit of appearing out of thin air. It happens, get used to it.

HOWEVER, we have to weigh this against the history of Microsoft's Public Relations people. Now, I am willing to accept that PR people will, sometimes, act on whim, without proper authority and without checking things out with The Powers That Be. So, it is entirely possible that some (or all) of the cases I list are incidents of this.

BUT, even if you accept that, you would also need to accept (by implication) that the said PR people might, themselves, hear about the FYIFV Urban Legend, and decide to turn it into reality. Might is NOT the same as actually doing so. All it means is that you can't trust that something doesn't exist, simply because ONE person decides not to make it.

Anyway, on with the PR stunts:

  • "Grassroots" pro-Microsoft, anti-DOJ letters appeared in various major newspapers were traced back to some (misguided?) Microsoft employees. The letters were forgeries, in an attempt to hamper the trial.
  • Also during the trial, a video claiming to show Dr Felton's IE-remover was shown to have been tampered with. Although a fresh video was made, it was not nearly so dramatic as the original, which seems to have been a PR stunt that went badly wrong.
  • Microsoft's alliance with IBM went disasterously awry, during the attempt to build a powerful server/desktop OS. This can be traced to ill-timed and utterly astonishing press releases by Microsoft, hostile to IBM, during the development of the system.
  • Microsoft's strategic alliances with Apple and DEC both went sour, through ill-timed press releases that indicated that the Alpha and Mac versions of Microsoft software were inferior, and that people should switch to the PC versions.
  • Microsoft's PR releases for Windows 95 suggested that their 32-bit system would NOT be backwards-compatiable with Windows 3.1, and that it would thus be superior than it could otherwise have been. That statement caused a stir, and resulted in Microsoft changing their API several times, to allow older programs to run. (This is one of the major reasons for 95's delays. No great surprise - have you ever seen bugs stop them from shipping?)
  • Last, but not least, the Haloween Documents deserve a mention. These seem to have been policy documents intended to be implemented by the PR department. Sure, we're seeing some of that, now. But to let such documents slip out???

False testimony... Wild claims... Policies =of= malpractice... Yes, I can believe that a department with such an attitude, on hearing the idea of a FYIFV badge/t-shirt, might well have run with it. No blame on the original person, or indeed on Microsoft as a company. Any blame, IF any exists at all, should lie solely at the feet of Public Relations staff who don't know when to call it a day.

If Microsoft dies, it won't be because it is, in some way, a poor company. Sure, it makes shoddy products, but nobody's perfect, and if the products sell, then that's the customer's problem. No, if Microsoft ever fails, it will be because the PR people have gone one step too far, and ruin will rain down, not just on them but the company as a whole.

The chances William Gates III would ever read K5 are so remarkably slim, that the cafeteria where I work will serve edible pizza that spontaneously appeared due to quantum foam displacement issues, many times over before.

However, on the off-chance that a stray quark will meander in his direction and actually manage to get into his brain, I would plead with him to sack his PR staff and any PR/tech liason officers, before it's too late. Microsoft needs to regain credibility, and it can't do that if its public face is controlled by creatures from the black lagoon.

Jargon Note (5.00 / 1) (#69)
by mahlen on Fri Jul 27, 2001 at 03:21:03 PM EST

I'll add that at Advent Software, the process of continually granting options (usually every two years) to those deemed worthy so that they could never be fully vested (and thus always have an incentive to stay) was called "evergreening". Given that lots of Advent people came from Oracle, the term may be used there as well.

mahlen

"Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if
you don't know what your rights are, or who the person is you're talking to.
Then on the way out, slam the door."
--"Deep Thoughts", by "Jack Handy"

FYIFV: A Microsoft Urban Legend | 70 comments (68 topical, 2 editorial, 0 hidden)
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